F2004 - Kunos vs ASR thoughts

[davewilliams000]

Hopefully the right place to post this... if not apologies...

I've had a go in the Kunos one (spent 90 mins in it!) this morning around Monza and did a 1:21.698, which is +1.097 slower than my best time in the ASR F2004 (1:20.601). I would say that the ASR car was quick out of the box, but the Kunos one needed a lot of setup work to get it to where I could do that time (has loads of understeer with default setup to me). Once I got the setup right, they feel very close in terms of handling, grip, etc in my opinion.

As far as the 1 second difference goes, there will obviously be a few very small differences between my 2 laps, but I am also wondering if the difference comes from engine power. The ASR one is listed as 950bhp, where as the Kunos is 865bhp. That's a significant difference in a car that weighs so little. Obviously Ferrari never really released the true specs for the engine, but I'd imagine in real life and certainly in qualifying trim, it would be closer to 950 than 865.

Interested to know everyone else's thoughts who have tried both

Here's my 2 laps (TV cam then onboard):

ASR (+0.512 slower than Barrichello's 2004 pole lap):

Kunos:

 

[PhilS13]

And the SF70H on 2015 levels.

Is this why your car is consistently 10-15 kph quicker than real life in every fast corner?

Even with all that supposed missing downforce the Kunos car is still a tiny bit faster than real life in every corner, but not way off.

 

[Mircea Rad]

I dont see, how the MODELING of the car should have an influence on the aero setup...? You can change it, so you can adapt it to certain tracks. And of course in Monza you race with low downforce setup.

Not just the wing angles are different between Monza and Monaco. But at the same time I have no idea what the aero parameters are in AC for SF70H and what downforce level you would get if you put the wings to the lowest angle and if it would match the real-life Monza values.

 

[David Dominguez]

Is this why your car is consistently 10-15 kph quicker than real life in every fast corner?

Even with all that supposed missing downforce the Kunos car is still a tiny bit faster than real life in every corner, but not way off.

Because the friction coefficients at big loads compensate the lack of downforce.

 

[PhilS13]

Because the friction coefficients at big loads compensate the lack of downforce.

David your tyres outperform Kunos tyres above 5000 N...

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

I have no idea what the aero parameters are in AC for SF70H and what downforce level you would get if you put the wings to the lowest angle and if it would match the real-life Monza values.

There's an app for that.

What are the real life values, btw?

 

[David Dominguez]

David your tyres outperform Kunos tyres above 5000 N...

Nope.

 

[PhilS13]

Nope.

I have it in front of me.

1.82 Dy at 5275N
Kunos is 1.78

Kunos gains are on the unloaded inside tyre. Your tyres are stronger at high loads.

 

[David Dominguez]

I have it in front of me.

1.82 Dy at 5275N
Kunos is 1.78

Kunos gains are on the unloaded inside tyre. Your tyres are stronger at high loads.

Blue is Kunos rear SS, green is mine. Do you have the last update of our mod?

 

[PhilS13]

Blue is Kunos rear SS, green is mine. Do you have the last update of our mod?

What I have is dated March 25th. I can't find an email saying there is a n. nvm got it. Updating...

 

[Jim Layee]

After a quick peruse of the posts it seems that some people are unhappy that an F1 cars needs some setting up to get anything like its best out of it. Wow that must have come as one hell of a shock !

 

[garyjpaterson]

After a quick peruse of the posts it seems that some people are unhappy that an F1 cars needs some setting up to get anything like its best out of it. Wow that must have come as one hell of a shock !

And others are unhappy because some of the fundamentals which make it an F1 car are not even close to the 'ballpark'.

 

[Jim Liak]

And others are unhappy because some of the fundamentals which make it an F1 car are not even close to the 'ballpark'.

Which is?
Come on people, spit it out.
Make a thread in kunos physics section and bring data proving that real car does X and kunos does Y.
Is is so difficult.? You seem to know better

 

[garyjpaterson]

Which is?
Come on people, spit it out.
Make a thread in kunos physics section and bring data proving that real car does X and kunos does Y.
Is is so difficult.? You seem to know better

There is plenty in this thread already.

 

[David Dominguez]

Which is?
Come on people, spit it out.
Make a thread in kunos physics section and bring data proving that real car does X and kunos does Y.
Is is so difficult.? You seem to know better

Maybe if you bothered to read

 

[Qazdar Karim]

What are the real life values, btw?

Top 2017 cars are most likely around 5CL peak downforce or more which is like 2100 kg of downforce at 300kph in normal conditions.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Which I'll note isn't exactly otherworldly...top LMP2 cars are at about 5.4 CL. The Kunos DF levels seem low to me as well, but open wheelers aren't my field of expertise so I don't have a solid opinion on it.

 

[Jim Liak]

There is plenty in this thread already.

Which is not an official thread is it? Why won't you report this officially backed up with the data you already have?

 

[garyjpaterson]

Which is not an official thread is it? Why won't you report this officially backed up with the data you already have?

Its been mentioned before, and again as some have said above its a similar story for all high downforce open wheelers/prototypes, so I don't see a lot of point now. Its not a single case where you could say its an oversight or small error, its obviously a decision they have taken thoughout, they are unlikely to change.

 

[Jim Liak]

So to summarise.
You claim that kunos f1 cars are less efficient regarding downforce levels from real ones.
In order to compensate that, kunos did their tyres to be more efficient on high loads than real ones. Right?
Ok.
None of us know the reasons for this decision. Maybe they have to deal with some limitation with their engine or something else that we don't know.
Would that make any more difference if I the end the final result will be a car that behaves really close to the real one?
I am telling that because I saw the lap of vettel and he did a 1:19:200 in Barcelona. Kunos car does that in 1:19:500 which is identical and also the speeds at corners is almost identical, really close.
So what is the issue here?

 

[garyjpaterson]

So to summarise.
You claim that kunos f1 cars are less efficient regarding downforce levels from real ones.
In order to compensate that, kunos did their tyres to be more efficient on high loads than real ones. Right?
Ok.
None of us know the reasons for this decision. Maybe they have to deal with some limitation with their engine or something else that we don't know.
Would that make any more difference if I the end the final result will be a car that behaves really close to the real one?
I am telling that because I saw the lap of vettel and he did a 1:19:200 in Barcelona. Kunos car does that in 1:19:500 which is identical and also the speeds at corners is almost identical, really close.
So what is the issue here?

I reckons I could bodge a 2-ton Transit van to lap at those speeds just by messing with the tyres and giving it enough power - stick a F1 body on it and call it the SF70. No one will mind at all