F1 skins removed from AMS.

gamer19 · Mar 23, 2016

with this mods deleting?

I mean.. I know what it's been writen but how come some mods have been deleted and some not, they even intended for very same game/car (Automobilista V10 cars) ?!

My BAR is deleted, some other and these, for an example, are not:
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ams-v10-arrows-asiatech-2001-a22.9487/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ams-scuderia-ferrari-v10-2002.9384/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/jaguar-formula-v10.9237/
even mine,
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ams-v10-new-steering-wheel-by-shnala.9407/
which has F1 logo as a main feature!??

Seems to me that someone has google "F1" and if you're not typing "F1" into your mod (title), it stays. I know, dumb, but it look it's like that.
Can I get an explanation, please?
I, like many others, busting my balls about that BAR too long to be left without that. Should I upload another ....version, with proper ....title?

Or you can't say that.

Troy Barman · Mar 23, 2016

Its best to leave F1 out of any title seeing as the are stupidly strict about sharing.

P*Funk · Mar 23, 2016

Yea this is frustrating because you see no ethical consistency here and no certainty about what to do. If I just reupload am I in trouble? I put enough hours into this thing to be annoyed.

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 23, 2016

P*Funk said:
If I just reupload am I in trouble?

Yes you most likely get into trouble with the rights holders, so I strongly advise you not to do that.

Whether we like it or not, those claims are legit as they do violate our terms of service.

The trademark holder has rightfully made a claim for it to be removed and we have to comply with that of course.

P*Funk · Mar 23, 2016

What exactly are they claiming rights holders of? The skin itself has no F1 logos in it and contains no names in its content. It looks like a car from 2002 but the logos don't belong to FOM and the care shape isn't the same either so its not even a 1:1 replica.

Are you guys just going to not be proactive and let whatever doesn't get claimed stay up because there's clearly mountains of stuff on this website that violates this same claim. The entire Assetto Corsa section is overrun with the word Formula 1 including a skin pack that represents much of the same stuff that was removed from here.

Troy Barman · Mar 23, 2016

P*Funk said:
Yea this is frustrating because you see no ethical consistency here and no certainty about what to do. If I just reupload am I in trouble? I put enough hours into this thing to be annoyed.

I would just share the skin somewhere else.

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 23, 2016

Our TOS should answer those questions @P*Funk. I can't give you a satisfying answer I fear.

P*Funk · Mar 23, 2016

@Bram My point is that how does FOM own the rights to privately entered cars? What exactly in their takedown claim did they purport was being violated? Which trademark? Which piece of intellectual property? Specifically. Did they just say remove this or else we'll get litigious on your asses?

Steve Bird · Mar 23, 2016

Looks like the killjoys have been in contact with RD requesting that the skins for F1 be removed.
Whatever next? Are they now going to trawl all the F1 related content on youtube and ask for it all to be removed?

Money rules the bloody world and you can't get a bit of joy from anything for free any more. I wouldn't mind but the official F1 game is toss. Pity really.

I know it's their IP and understand why they do it but a small community of players getting a little joy isn't really going to kill them now is it?

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/removed-mods-deleted.118679/page-5#post-2210070

ouvert · Mar 23, 2016

well it might not be on RD ... perhaps Codies or who has F1 licence approach them .. I don`t see any reason why RD would that decision by themself ...

Bram Hengeveld · Mar 23, 2016

ouvert said:
well it might not be on RD ... perhaps Codies or who has F1 licence approach them .. I don`t see any reason why RD would that decision by themself ...

Steve isn't saying RD made that decision

See this:

RaceDepartment said:
Removed after claim by Formula One World Championship Limited (“FOWC”).

Please ensure all content created, uploaded or posted is in line with our terms of service.

Colin O Callaghan · Mar 23, 2016

Bram said:
Steve isn't saying RD made that decision See this:

I think you guys should have informed the owners instead of deleting all the hard work and their threads, maybe they could have changed titles or reuploaded as Formula Extreme (which belongs to Reiza who are happy to have people modding) and not F1 or Formula One (if I am allowed even use that word without getting sued). Or they could have re skined anything that these greedy sharks where complaining against. I know this is not your fault Racedepartment but I think that should have been the process.

It does raise the point as to why the other forums are untouched and without issue when there is a gazillion more files and mods there?

If I am to create a skin just like Reiza did that is similar to real life and same colour and upload it for AMS which is owned by Reiza and call it Say 2016 RED SKIN Formula Extreme, is that allowed? so we dont upset or get in the way of the greedy human scourge's pockets?

Goodluck modding all, gets worse every year. Very Sad

Andy_J · Mar 23, 2016

This is a real blow for the PC modding world. I was only using the excellent 2015 F1 mod in RF2 last night. Are these going to start to disappear?

What about other F1 mods/skinsets?

Ah well...........that's life.

P*Funk · Mar 23, 2016

The problem is that there's no clarity on why these skins violate the terms. What does FOM claim ownership of? I've seen skins in games before that have big white spaces where brands go but the skin itself is accurate.

Now, is FOM claiming they own the right to use Castrol on a livery? Doubt it. Do they claim the shape of a Williams or Minardi paint scheme? Again these are private vehicles and they're seen in youtube videos at places like Goodwood and private track days because private owners of these cars maintain them.

Its clear they just submitted takedown orders on autopilot. They even took down a mod that added team and driver names to the Formula Reiza season. I wasn't aware that Lewis Hamilton sold his name to FOM or that the publication of constructor names was a violation of their IP.

I think this is basically RD taking things down because they were told to and nothing more. Everyone I'm sure by now has seen what copyright infringement emails look like when someone on your network is torrenting something from HBO or whatever (maybe you don't) and the email is pretty comprehensive and contains tons of details citing how its a violation. Without such detail its basically just a threat that has the backing of money rather than being of any litigious efficacy.

Skin creators deserve to know the limits of what they can do without legal permission because FOM doesn't own everything.

gamer19 · Mar 23, 2016

P*Funk said:
The problem is that there's no clarity on why these skins violate the terms. What does FOM claim ownership of? I've seen skins in games before that have big white spaces where brands go but the skin itself is accurate.
Now, is FOM claiming they own the right to use Castrol on a livery? Doubt it. Do they claim the shape of a Williams or Minardi paint scheme? Again these are private vehicles and they're seen in youtube videos at places like Goodwood and private track days because private owners of these cars maintain them.
Its clear they just submitted takedown orders on autopilot. They even took down a mod that added team and driver names to the Formula Reiza season. I wasn't aware that Lewis Hamilton sold his name to FOM or that the publication of constructor names was a violation of their IP.
I think this is basically RD taking things down because they were told to and nothing more. Everyone I'm sure by now has seen what copyright infringement emails look like when someone on your network is torrenting something from HBO or whatever (maybe you don't) and the email is pretty comprehensive and contains tons of details citing how its a violation. Without such detail its basically just a threat that has the backing of money rather than being of any litigious efficacy.
Skin creators deserve to know the limits of what they can do without legal permission because FOM doesn't own everything.

Good point.
So, if we left "F1" from the title (and elswhere - just to be sure, you know... these are the hard times for them, obviously) they can not(?) claim property on, say, "Lucky Strike", "Mild Seven", "West", and all other companies that take part in their circus.
THEY and only they can sue us, I believe. And I'm quite sure they wont. They never do.
Only that evil empire, more evil from the evil one from latest Star Wars movie.
Available on blu-ray since yesterday btw.

So, I think I'm pretty much safe if I call my BAR skin something like "BAR, my version for Automobilista V10".

P*Funk · Mar 23, 2016

I may just go the Monty Python route.

simaken · Mar 23, 2016

I would also like to know. RD, what makes you decided where the line is? I mean as gamer19 mentioned on the first post, why would a skins stay and another one gets deleted? If I says"my take on the X1 x cars of the x season" compares to "my take on x car". Is it really only the F word use in a sentence/title that makes it wrong or okay? Also, where is the consistency? I mean I have made skins for GSC2013 using F1 in the title. Even putting the F1/fia logo in my post and it still there a year and a half later.

P*Funk · Mar 23, 2016

I think its because this is the start of the F1 season and they have some knob heads trawling google looking for people uploading stuff from the first race of the season which just happened. They probably found the 2016 skins for AMS and in the same scoop grabbed up everything that has F1 in the title in that mod section. That they managed to leave many other mods of identical content behind including a friggin' Michael Schumacher skin says it wasn't very concerted.

My feeling is it'll loosen up over time. In the mean time new skins should avoid using any F1 words. I'm not sure whether team names will also trigger them who knows. I'm half inclined to just upload a Supertruck skin with a description that says "Not an F1 skin" to see if it gets taken down.

Andy_J · Mar 23, 2016

I'm confused too. What about old F1 skins/mods? Do FOM own those too? There are mods/skins on here with past F1 skins. I understand RD's TOS, but how is it decided what can stay and what can't?