F1: Resolution sought on track limit abuse

[formidable]

Using the Gran Turismo 6 penalty system (the car slows down by 5 secons) can be a good system.

 

[Terry Rock]

In most cases...if you're out there you're taking a slightly longer route despite, carrying more speed.
I don't think it needs any policing....sorry.

 

[the_sigman]

In most cases...if you're out there you're taking a slightly longer route despite, carrying more speed.
I don't think it needs any policing....sorry.

They are surely getting an advantage, otherwise they would not do it

And cutting at Radillion is not a longer route

 

[Flammenjc]

If that's true, then he fully deserved his puncture in Spa.

On the lap that he got his puncture he messed up eau rouge and came to cut the inside of Radillion exactly the same as Grosjean did in the picture

 

[InsaneOzzie]

I seem to remember that the V8 Supercars on SuperPole laps have some corners with a sensor that recognises when the car goes wide? Ultimately taking their time away.

Yes this is true, and a very good solution to cutting and exceeding track limits.
The V8's have a transponder. the curbs a transmitter, when the cars exceed the curbs beyond what is deemed acceptable, it is automatically recorded by the system as a strike against the car, the race stewards allow 3 strikes, get a 4th strike you get a drive through penalty. And plenty do, as it's a fine line between being clean and cutting, it also lets the drivers race hard, but deters bad sportsmanship.
Cheers

 

[Matheus Machado]

This ruling should be adopted by the FIA and F1.

That one seems perfectly reasonable for me. But not allowing full usage of kerbs is a straight NO.

 

[the_sigman]

That one seems perfectly reasonable for me. But not allowing full usage of kerbs is a straight NO.

They can use the kerbs, that's what it says there.

 

[Matheus Machado]

They can use the kerbs, that's what it says there.

Yeah, I'm mashing current rules in the last sentence.

 

[Michael Watts]

Quite easy.. remove said pavement from corners that get cut and replace with gravel. or do the sausage kerbs. Either way make it a mistake to cut the track duh.. can't rely on Humans to monitor the situation then, its just a judgement call.. and those always can go bad. Kerbs or gravel are pretty black n white.

 

[LacSlyer]

In most cases...if you're out there you're taking a slightly longer route despite, carrying more speed.
I don't think it needs any policing....sorry.

Just because it's a longer route doesn't mean it's not a significant advantage. Any good driver will be able to make up time going 5 meters wider on a turn that meets a straight. The speed advantage is so much more significant than the 5 extra meters traveled that it's not even a debate.

 

[Aidan Keranen]

On the lap that he got his puncture he messed up eau rouge and came to cut the inside of Radillion exactly the same as Grosjean did in the picture

I agree, I saw them all cutting it, and there is a sharp edge to it. So to blame Pirelli is actually pretty dog of him, it was his own fault, all of their own faults for running the circuit in that manner.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Remove all the corners, problem solved.

 

[lmntr]

I would like a 1 second time penalty added to their finish time. I am not sure about automated penalties like a sudden slow down of throttle application as applied by the Pcars game. This is probably unsafe in the real world but okay in game play. Also, if a driver knows that he will be penalized at the 4th incident, do you not think he will push this for 3 laps if he can smell a pass?
This should be penalized every single time.

 

[tigermilk]

Yes this is true, and a very good solution to cutting and exceeding track limits.
The V8's have a transponder. the curbs a transmitter, when the cars exceed the curbs beyond what is deemed acceptable, it is automatically recorded by the system as a strike against the car, the race stewards allow 3 strikes, get a 4th strike you get a drive through penalty. And plenty do, as it's a fine line between being clean and cutting, it also lets the drivers race hard, but deters bad sportsmanship.
Cheers

Drive through is the only way it will work. A 0.5s-1.0s penalty could be meaningless. You have to hit the driver where it hurts, and drive throughs hurt. All it takes is one for your race to be ruined. Such a 3 strike system would likely stop the behavior quickly.

 

[ttaMe]

I wonder what the people who voted yes thought of Verstappens overtake in spa. He clearly gained an advantage by going off track at blanchemont. So he should've been penalised.
But according to some he is already the "Overtake King".

I voted yes, however I do not have issue with Verstappens pass on the Sauber. Cutting and extending are not the same thing, in my opinion. E.g. Vettel, Grosjean and others consistently cut Radaillon for a better run at the Kemmel straight, that's gaining an advantage, as it is quicker. Verstappen, on the other hand, had a run on the Sauber leading upto Blanchemont and they were almost completely side-by-side as they entered the corner. Going through that corner side-by-side, at around 200mph and almost flat out I might add, Verstappen let his car run slightly wide (over the white lines, so technically extending) when the Sauber started moving towards him, as is expected from a race car travelling at those speeds through that kind of corner. At the exit of Blanchemont Verstappen had almost completely dropped behind the Sauber (further back than he was on the entrance to the corner) and only held the advantage of holding the inside line into the Bus stop chicane, which is where he completed the pass.
In short, I think Verstappen did what any other competitive racing driver would do in those circumstances. Letting his car run slightly wide was the safest approach and he certainly did not gain any kind of advantage, in my opinion.
Thoughts?

 

[Tal]

Well, if he ran wide and gained the inside line to the next corner then he gained an advantage, and the rules say, if you go off track and gain an advantage you need to give it up or be penalised.
And if we are talking about strict track limits, then extending or cutting shouldn't really matter, both involve four wheels off the track.
I don't deny that Verstappen's move was very well executed and courageous to a degree, but cutting the track is cutting the track, no matter how exciting/beautiful the overtake is.
I remember Grosjean had his overtake on Massa (I think) taken away from him in Hungary for very much the same scenario.

Just so we are on the same page : I believe Max earned that overtake and he should keep it (which he does). And the same goes for Grosjean's move (sadly, the rules WERE enforced that day...)

 

[Chris]

I don't deny that Verstappen's move was very well executed and courageous to a degree, but cutting the track is cutting the track, no matter how exciting/beautiful the overtake is.

I was surprised to see that he wasn't required to give the place back, because the same thing happened to Ricciardo in 2013 at Suzuka going around the outside of someone at 130R, and he was instructed to hand the place back.

It was no doubt an awesome feat of bravery and car control, but he did have all four wheels off, and only stayed along side Nasr because he had the throttle pedal pinned. So IMO it was an illegal overtake into the bus stop.

 

[Reik Major]

I wonder what the people who voted yes thought of Verstappens overtake in spa. He clearly gained an advantage by going off track at blanchemont. So he should've been penalised.
But according to some he is already the "Overtake King".

Agree. If there was gravel he never had dared to go for this move.

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

Rule proposal: 5 sec penalty when you cut/extend twice in a row. This being either twice in one lap, or in two consecutive laps. You will get a warning for every time you cut/extend, and if you cut once more after 3 warnings, you will get a 15 sec penalty. This way, teams won't be able to use it tactically.

 

[Terry Rock]

They are surely getting an advantage, otherwise they would not do it

And cutting at Radillion is not a longer route

Try going up a blind twenty story hill at better than 195 mph and see if you can hit the 'marks' each and every time.
In the case of A1-Ring's last corner prior to the straight...try going downhill into a blind off-camber right-hand turn to get up to speed for a potential pass.
You guys have got to make up your mind.
Do you want to see racing or do you want to continue to over-regulate every single aspect of F1?
If a driver gains an obvious advantage by cutting the track to pass a competitor (short-cutting the chicane at Monaco after tunnel exit comes to mind)...that's one thing.
Penalizing guys for pushing the car and occasionally putting tires over the limit is just another race 'killing' regulation.