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Featured F1 must continue with V6 engines, say manufacturers

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Jordan Adcock, Apr 19, 2015.

  1. Hybrid V6

    34 vote(s)
    37.0%
  2. V8

    58 vote(s)
    63.0%
  1. F1 Engine.jpg
    F1 engine manufacturers have insisted that any future move towards 1000bhp output must be implemented using the existing V6 hybrid power units.


    The agreement comes amid continuing negotiations over F1’s future rulebook from 2017 onward, with Bernie Ecclestone urging a return to the V8 engines used up until 2013 in order to boost the sport’s spectacle.

    The idea to boost power levels to 1000bhp, among other aesthetic changes to the cars, has been reported since F1 Strategy Group meetings back in February, but during the Bahrain Grand Prix weekend Mercedes executive director Toto Wolff has said while the teams agree on the need to maximise excitement, any changes must be developed with the engines they currently have.

    "On Friday, there was a very valuable meeting. Charlie was there, Bernie was there, and concepts are being put in place to make it a spectacular formula in 2017,” Wolff told AUTOSPORT.

    "I think all engine manufacturers are pretty clear that the current engine architecture with the hybrid component needs to stay in place. This is the direction we have had and this is, at least at the moment, the current status between Ferrari, Renault, Honda and Mercedes."

    The costs of abandoning the already notoriously expensive V6 power units for old V8s is undoubtedly motivating the manufacturers’ decision, but Wolff warned that increasing horsepower would bring its own costs.

    "I think there are pretty easy ways to increase the horsepower, this is increasing fuel flow. If you want to increase the fuel flow by 10kg or 20kg etc. an hour, then you are going to have more than 1000bhp.

    "But then you need to redesign crucial components of the engine, you need to make them more reliable and that again involves a lot of development costs. I think we all understand we want a spectacular formula, not only on the chassis side but also the power unit side, and what is being discussed at the moment is about how to achieve that."
     
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  2. Michael Watts

    Michael Watts
    XB1 Gamertag: michaei watts Premium Member

    What's next 4 cylinders with 65mm turbos, and 1-3rd gear to be powered by electric motors? It might as well be Formula E. Why not go with Hydrogen Fusion engines.. yeah those would sound awesome :poop:, but all the cars will have to run on Intermediates as water would be pouring from the exhaust. :sick:
     
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  3. Melv

    Melv
    Premium Member

    I voted for Hybrid V6s, with a caveat, Id like them to turn the revs up. This will bump the sound up. Also as Toto says above small tweaks to the fuel and components will get upto 950 bhp no sweat.

    As per me Hybrid is the way to go keeping the future in mind.
     
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  4. Melv

    Melv
    Premium Member

    When we switched from V10s to V8s as well there was a hue n cry with regards to sound. But I was at Monza in 2013 and damn thing made my hair stand. Could hear the beasts screaming all across parco civico.

    As long as we keep the revs up around 18k we will get the sound back. I dunno I may be wrong.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Lazarou

    Lazarou
    Premium Member

    Fuel saving and Formula 1 should not be in the same sentance. Pretending that F1 is somehow a 'green' sport is laughable what with the emissions from the aircraft they use between circuits to the environmental cost of manufacturing. Let's crack on and forget the environmental agenda turn the fuel up, turn the revs up or call it a day.
     
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  6. Formula One is meant to be technologically advanced. Right?
    Why is it so restricted in terms of limiting engine performance and so on? I wasn't alive to see the old good days of F1 with Senna but there was something with those regulations that made epic racing did it not? Up the Bhp to 900 odd roughly?
    Bring refueling back! Bring the tire manufacturer battle back! That will play with the whole system and will be cost effective. If that doesn't work go crazy with 1000BHP engines!

    Keep V6 hybrid.
     
  7. anthony monteil

    anthony monteil
    Sector3 Studios

    I would vote for V10 or V12 if available but V8s can produce some awesome sounds too. So, F1 can keep their moped engines but they'll run out of sponsors and audience soon. Then, we'll see if they reconsider or keep running in the wall. It makes me sick to see those engineers and stupid regulations kill motorsport. What is the point of all this non-sense? Who wants to see silent spaceships racing?
     
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  8. Translation by the engine manufacturers: We've already invested a substantial fortune into developing the V6's for the last two years and we're not ready to abandon that investment for a new engine this soon.
     
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  9. I didn't expect so many people being in favour of the V8s.
     
  10. I think the regulations kill the V6 not the engine itself
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. stevem

    stevem
    GearGrinder

    bring back 2004 rules and specs. nobody came close to a 1:30 today
     
  12. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen
    I am the Pastor Maldonado of RaceDepartment.

    Well, I do quite like Formula E ;)
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. The issue with big kers is that it is so easy for the teams to fine tune the power outputs to be smooth and come out linearly. Effectively this makes the kers a high speed power boost but doesn't effect how hard the car is to drive out of corners even if it had 1000bhp. So it just increases top speeds at the longest straights and makes passing more difficult. Of course in a way passing doesn't even exist in f1 anymore. You just press the drs button and the car in front moves to behind you.

    That being said I'd like to see true 1000bhp engines. Not the pseudo 600-770bhp engines we have now. What I mean by true 1000bhp is that when the driver stomps on the gas he can get 100% anywhere on the track. Of course revs do matter as well but the point is that the peak power number should mean peak power everytime the throttle is floored and the engine is running at its peak power.

    It is imho a serious issue and hard to fix. For lap time it just makes sense to use the kers in burst to cover the long straights and it is really difficult to force teams to not use it like that. But as long as it is used that way kers is imho just a boring electronic device in the car which makes it heavier, easier to drive and more boring to watch.

    Sadly it seems like people really think these hybrid drivetrains must be in f1 because they are in the roadcars. I think that argument is nonsense. F1 as a tech arena is already so difference that any overlap between the hybrid tech in f1 and in real road cars is anecdotal at best. F1 is about peak power burst and regen under hard braking. Real life is about partial throttle driving at constant speeds and regen under slight braking. F1 is traction limited and the usage is carefully planned whereas real cars are the opposite. Miles per gallon limited and instead of planned the usage is almost chaotic. In other words there is no plan. The system needs to be reactive in real life whereas in f1 it is planned and known for almost the full race ahead.

    I think 1000bhp engines would be good in f1. But it needs to be real 1000bhp. Not some 600bhp and the burst of extra 400bhp in few spots on the track. If being green really matters then use some biofuels, ban usage of carbon fibre in parts of the car where it doesn't add body rigidity and force the teams to use recycled materials instead. And instead of measuring the fuel flow and limiting the max amount you can use measure the pollution instead. Measure the co2 and make it that you can't exceed certain number.

    If the kers must be there then force its usage so that the limiting value is the battery weight and control the usage so that for example you need to use the kers at least in 6 spots on the track and just 2 or 3. And for the love of common sense allow the teams to use the bloody electric motor to restart the engine...
     
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  14. Turbocharged units will always be substantially more quiet than a naturally aspirated engine.
    The energy 'bleed' as the exhaust gases pass across the turbine wheel, basically 'chops' up the noise... even before it gets to the pipe.
    What I would like to see the 'powers' do, is to 'up' the fuel quantity allowance, remove DRS, increase rate of flow and uncouple KERS to driver braking influence...(i.e KERS flywheel at the Diff would still be employed, but the braking control would not be brake-by-wire).
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2015
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  15. Michael Watts

    Michael Watts
    XB1 Gamertag: michaei watts Premium Member

  16. Melv

    Melv
    Premium Member

    Higher RPM - better sound. Keep the V6 Hybrids (atleast some part of the tech will get to road cars and this will def push battery development for vehicles)

    For better spectacle the regs for sculpted undersides should be reduced slightly. Tightly controlled but relaxed a little bit so we can see cars race nose to tail without the nonsense we have today of loosing downforce and killing the tyres. This will have a major impact on the spectacle.

    Some of races with flowing corners even if u are faster u cant get close cause it will destroy ur tyres after 2-3 laps. So the only option overtake on the straights with the help of DRS.
     
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  17. Melv

    Melv
    Premium Member

    Some of the other options are nice to dream about such as v12s, refuelling, tyre war but unfortunately we live in a world which has not come out of a recession for past decade nearly (most of us with jobs would have felt this).

    There is no heaps of cash lying around for F1 like the good old days which means cost has become a critical decision point failing which the boards of most big manufacturers will hit the kill switch.
     
  18. Filip Carlén

    Filip Carlén
    Premium Member

    I get this post is a joke, but would not a hydrogen F1-car with such high engine temperatures and revs only produce steam? A car standing still at low revs produce liquid water, but a F1 car? I don't know, it was just a random thought :D

    Edit: Spelling
     
  19. Different track configuration
     
  20. anthony monteil

    anthony monteil
    Sector3 Studios

    And you're not the only one. This championship is becoming more and more popular.
    If this is the future of racing, I'm afraid motorsport in the form I intend it is dead...and I should start looking for another job :(