F1 2012 F1 2012 - griplevel between PC and console

[SoTD]

Hey guys,

i know there was a thread a while ago about a driver named Noble where we discussed his obviously huge amount of grip and downforce he had while driving Codemasters F1 2011 on the Xbox 360 compared to other guys. In this thread, someone threw the question in, if the griplevel between PC and console is different, sadly no one could answer it back then, because most of the guys here driving on PC.

There were discussions about wether or not Noble was using some kind of grip hack bla bla, all that kind of crap, that's where the thread went kind of out of control a bit.

But anyways, i never believed Noble or any other of the Xbox 360 ARL-guys were using hacks. Noble was and is still, one of the fastest driver on the Xbox 360 now in Codemasters F1 2012. If you want to watch his videos, check out his youtube channel.

So, as i said, Noble is a really good driver on the Xbox 360, and i would rate myself a pretty good driver on the PC too. You can check out some of my hotlaps and stuff on my youtube channel, so you'll have kind of a comparision i guess.

Now, to come back to my original question, does anyone here have experience in driving Codemasters F1 2012 on PC AND Xbox 360 or PS3? I basically ask this because i like to watch Noble's videos and sometimes, not always i see a huge gap (about a sec) between his times in qualifying and the times really good PC drivers can do. I basically know a guy who has a good amount of sim racing experience on the PC and is also really really fast at Codemasters F1 2012 on PC and after i sent him Noble's Monaco hotlap he just said to me, Noble has way more grip than you are used to on PC. Another example would be this video. A driver named "TyranoTigger" drives a 1:35.093 in qualifying in Valencia. That time equals about rank #5 on the PC global leaderboard in TT. So he drives this time with fuel and tyre-simulation on and would be about rank #5 on the PC leaderboard against people with fuel and tyre-simulation off. Maybe he is just that good, i don't know, but i would like to hear from a person who has experienced Codemasters F1 2012 on PC and console and also i would like to see some leaderboard times from Xbox 360 so i can compare it to the ones from PC. Maybe we PC-users just suck, who knows.

 

[Andrew Ford]

Well I don't know about it changing the level of grip in this game because well we know this game isn't the most realistic when it comes to physics but I was more pointing out that it is something I have noticed on his video and something that I have never seen in my races or anyone elses on the PC. So it shows there is a potential difference in the games which was the question raised.

On another note I can match and some others I know can match Noble's times on some tracks so it could also mean that there is no difference but then at some tracks, we on the PC are half a second slower. That could just be that Noble and several others on the xbox are just that much better on those tracks. Also I am not sure how much these guys practice but practice does make a difference and if I were to practice more I could perhaps go that 0.5 second faster. An example would be Canada I am 1 tenth of a lap Noble posted and I know someone who can go 2 tenths quicker than him on PC, but like above in China I can just about do a mid 33, nevermind a mid 32 and no one I know on PC can do a 32 there.

Another interesting thing is what Matty at ARL has mentioned yesterday now in that he is playing on the PC, that the xbox has more front grip, and given he uses a pad for both I think his opinion holds some weight.

Last year the xbox was about 1 second faster than the PC I at least believe but this year the gap is smaller and almost none at some tracks.

i respect ur points and the way you put them across. i'm not pro xbox over pc. pc is obviously better. i can only give my opinion and i use a wheel like noble. matty uses a pad - there are differences even between pad and wheel.

my xbox times are slower and never faster. i complained of the feel of the sauber in an online equal cars race on xbox. the back end was sliding out. next time i tried the mclaren at china. not saying back end was horrible but there was screeching and i felt nervous. i didn't feel like this on pc.

you may be right about beating noble if you practised. i can't judge ur driving. i do believe practise is crucial and you all play a lot more than me...so i might beat you if i get practising ;-) lol

seriously tho, i can only go on what i've seen, consistency and the attention he's getting for his efforts. i wouldn't use canada as a comparison track. it is a cutting track. as is hockenheim. (not saying you cut at canada - i just mean, more people could do well against him). at china my tt on xbox was 5 tenths slower in TT mode (not online quali) and it would have been hard to top the pc time.

sorry, i'm repeating myself. guess we will never know unless noble plays on pc. about the grip tho - from my opinion, there is certainly no more on xbox and if i don't know about you...but if mattyg says there is more front end grip on xbox...well i'm surprised - because i dont tend to get issues on either platform with understeer form lack of grip. my only issues are lack of inital turn in and - inconsistent braking e.g hairpin at abu dhabi

for a laugh, please watch the braking at 1.25 on this video. i was not holding brakes constant. when they locked i released and started cadence braking. it had not affect.
ironically, this was my first race on xbox after setting a tt time of top 40 on pc. i got better as i went along - was a while back so bit better now thankfully. lol

cheers.

 

[Andrew Ford]

Thank's for your answer. Don't understand me wrong Andrew, i never said Noble uses a grip hack or has unbelievable more grip than others. It's easy to spot that he is fast because he almost never leave the racing line combined with perfect steering angle around corners which gives him max turn in and grip which is crucial in F1 2012 because else you just understeer around corners. I was just seeking informations about Xbox 360 compared to PC because the discussion came up in F1 2011 and i never got an answer from a driver with experience who owns a Xbox 360 AND PC with F1 2011/F1 2012.

thanks mate. hope i helped. i can only given an honest educated answer. unfortunately it think i got too into the noble admiration thing. ultimately it's just my judgement about the grip and the facts about times don't lie. i'm not faster on xbox than pc and have less confidence in the car for xbox.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

i respect ur points and the way you put them across. i'm not pro xbox over pc. pc is obviously better. i can only give my opinion and i use a wheel like noble. matty uses a pad - there are differences even between pad and wheel.

my xbox times are slower and never faster. i complained of the feel of the sauber in an online equal cars race on xbox. the back end was sliding out. next time i tried the mclaren at china. not saying back end was horrible but there was screeching and i felt nervous. i didn't feel like this on pc.

you may be right about beating noble if you practised. i can't judge ur driving. i do believe practise is crucial and you all play a lot more than me...so i might beat you if i get practising ;-) lol

seriously tho, i can only go on what i've seen, consistency and the attention he's getting for his efforts. i wouldn't use canada as a comparison track. it is a cutting track. as is hockenheim. (not saying you cut at canada - i just mean, more people could do well against him). at china my tt on xbox was 5 tenths slower in TT mode (not online quali) and it would have been hard to top the pc time.

sorry, i'm repeating myself. guess we will never know unless noble plays on pc. about the grip tho - from my opinion, there is certainly no more on xbox and if i don't know about you...but if mattyg says there is more front end grip on xbox...well i'm surprised - because i dont tend to get issues on either platform with understeer form lack of grip. my only issues are lack of inital turn in and - inconsistent braking e.g hairpin at abu dhabi

for a laugh, please watch the braking at 1.25 on this video. i was not holding brakes constant. when they locked i released and started cadence braking. it had not affect.
ironically, this was my first race on xbox after setting a tt time of top 40 on pc. i got better as i went along - was a while back so bit better now thankfully. lol

cheers.

Now with this comment I can spot your problem.

Yes, we all know PC has more rear grip. It actually has the same but due to the better front grip Xbox has, the car isn't understeering that much or it is even oversteering.

Turn in problems? I mean, lack of turn in? That's a really strange one. I have problems on some tracks due to the too much turn in the car has. The trick on 2012 is to take the corner with the right speed. If you take it above that speed the car turn ins then goes straight and then starts turning again (but slowly). If you take it too slow.. Well, it's incredibly easy to take it, but it's just slower. I think the problem with you is that you approach the corner with too much speed. But to be honest, I have no idea. Haven't really taken my time and study your driving. Just saw these videos but didn't really concentrate that much on them. Just on the things you pointed out. But from what you say, I think this is your problem. And this is the thing that keeps you away from the feel of the cars. Actually, I'm gonna ask a friend maybe sometime. He doesn't play F1 and rarely plays racing games. We'll see if he spots difference in car handlings. He would be a neutral guy and as the difference are (at least to me) pretty obvious. He may see 'em.

 

[Andrew Ford]

Ugh, about the lap. Do yourself a favor and do not use brakes for T1.

Anyways, back to topic. When you do what he did on China - you do understeer on the PC. It depends on your speed, yes. But when I'm driving as fast as the car (and more likely I..) can go the car just understeers. This should happen when you overdrive the car but it actually happens without doing it. Because the car can surely take the corner with that speed, it just needs time to .. I don't know.. Prepare? for the corner.

I do not talk about Noble, but Xbox. I haven't put in question his throttle abilities ( I think you said throttle). I'm just saying that on the PC you can't take the corner like that.

yeah thanks kristian. i think i did save a lot of time braking less after i did this lap. almost, but not fully, cutting the corner - 2 wheels off track. i did faster laps after but couldn't hook up all the sectors. still a lot of time to be had.

i think we agree to be friends as always and disagree lol
i'm not saying i'm always right (just 99% of the time lol)
seriously though i can only give answers about grip based on my experience of both platforms.
just because i'm not the best driver doesn't mean i can't feel the car. the xbox video was from very early on when the game just came out. i'm not great but id know if there was differences between the feel of two games.
with all respect kristian, you can't say pc has more rear end grip and xbox more front end as you haven't driven both have you?;-)
the speed thing - unless you trace the exact racing line and angle and speed all together , it's hard to compare. in this game, if you steer in just slightly too much under heavy braking, you understeer massively. it's like a bug in the game. i don't believe that programming of the game would be too different tho. can you imagine...it would be easier to have one language and then translate than(e.g. to xbox and pc rather than saying ..lets make 3 different games. pc was also patched much more and to me feels like a more complete game now than the xbox - which still has a little feel of pre patch to me.

all in all. nice game but full of bugs still lol

anyway.thanks guys. hope it's food for thought even if you don't agree with me ;-)

 

[Mike Partington]

Andrew Ford

You could actually gain about 1 second on that lap just by having more confidence, especially in S1 turns 1 and 3. T1 you can take in 6th and maybe even 7th in TT (haven't done it) so you are losing speed there and turn 3 you didn't have your DRS open which you can open as soon as you have straightened out the car after T2. Although this is not what this post is about.

The FFB, is it so different on the xbox? I guess I would not know since neither of the wheels I own work on an xbox but recently I sometimes even change my FFB during a race often due to fatigue but the pace remains the same so I wonder how much difference it can make. If you practice with no or very little FFB for as long as with I would guess that you would reach the same pace. Apparently alot of the best sim racers race with little to no FFB though don't they just to be faster?

For braking, that is often very personal just like using small or standard brakes. I actually think braking is my weakpoint but then others say its really good but for sure people like Noble have that part sorted.

 

[Andrew Ford]

Andrew Ford

You could actually gain about 1 second on that lap just by having more confidence, especially in S1 turns 1 and 3. T1 you can take in 6th and maybe even 7th in TT (haven't done it) so you are losing speed there and turn 3 you didn't have your DRS open which you can open as soon as you have straightened out the car after T2. Although this is not what this post is about.

The FFB, is it so different on the xbox? I guess I would not know since neither of the wheels I own work on an xbox but recently I sometimes even change my FFB during a race often due to fatigue but the pace remains the same so I wonder how much difference it can make. If you practice with no or very little FFB for as long as with I would guess that you would reach the same pace. Apparently alot of the best sim racers race with little to no FFB though don't they just to be faster?

For braking, that is often very personal just like using small or standard brakes. I actually think braking is my weakpoint but then others say its really good but for sure people like Noble have that part sorted.

thanks mike. you are probably right about confidence and that comes more with practise. i'm obsessed with not cutting but maybe i should start that way and work backwards to find the limit rather than the other way.

regarding ffb i will just quote back a min:
"about the wheel - i don't mean the vibrations of the wheel - i mean the wheel centering force. all real life cars centre when you press the throttle. as you know, throttle/braking inputs relate to the steering and if you accelerate with the wheel turn full lock , you aint gonna have the grip/speed you want. so if the wheel begins to self centre, it just helps you know when to push and to keep smoother throttle inputs.

on f1 2011, i actually turned off ffb on xbox and wheel weight down. it was a different came and it was more about reactions and throwin the wheel. i gained success by braking as little as possible as quick as possible and throwing wheel as quick as possible.

f1 2012 isn't perfect. sometimes it's massively inconsistent but braking distances are more realistic. it rewards trail braking. it rewards a closer link between braking/throttle inputs and steering."
i said about the xbox... i could go as faster as the pc after practise but not faster unless lucky. it's harder to go from ffb to none rather than none to ffb - trust me lol
it helps you be more smooth but of course you can go as fast without.

kristian and me are inboxing now as we're both worried weve offended each other lol
i probs got my teeth too much into this thread as its interesting. i hope it's been a good read. i respect you all as racers -ur all faster than me so thanks for the tips. on the other hand, i'm half decent and i feel im in a good position to answer the OP

i said to kristian, i'd love to see someone do a lap comparison of him and noble on sony vegas. i have it but don't know how to render it yet. i might give it a try and it might provide more answers. enjoyed reading ur posts and good luck. ps.. post ur youtube account if you have one and i;ll subscribe

 

[Mike Partington]

i said to kristian, i'd love to see someone do a lap comparison of him and noble on sony vegas. i have it but don't know how to render it yet. i might give it a try and it might provide more answers. enjoyed reading ur posts and good luck. ps.. post ur youtube account if you have one and i;ll subscribe

Tomorrow I will find a lap of Nobles and maybe either my own or Kristian's and put them up. I race in cockpit so it might be hard to see a comparison but Kristian does race in t-cam sometimes so he might be able to offer a better one.

Another thing to note though is that is doesn't really matter if one platform has more grip than the other, they are essentially the same game and the same techniques, driving styles and setups should work for both games.

 

[Andrew Ford]

Tomorrow I will find a lap of Nobles and maybe either my own or Kristian's and put them up. I race in cockpit so it might be hard to see a comparison but Kristian does race in t-cam sometimes so he might be able to offer a better one.

Another thing to note though is that is doesn't really matter if one platform has more grip than the other, they are essentially the same game and the same techniques, driving styles and setups should work for both games.

hi mate.just did 5 laps of hockenheim in tt cockpit and got within 8 hundredthsof my best. it is easy to see where i lost time as even tho i'm rank 130 or whatever, i'm 1.8 seconds off the 2nd fastest guy lol

i will post up tomorrow and maybe you can take a look. i love watching lap comparisons so yeah, post em up mate and thanks ;-) maybe brundle can do a voiceover lol

night all!

 

[x M a t t y G]

Hello guys, thought I'd come and give my opinion on what the differences are between xbox and PC!

I only properly started playing the game two days ago so I guess I haven't tested it all thoroughly, but I have found a fewdifferences between xbox and PC already.

1. In Online GP, the tyres warm up SO much quicker on the xbox. When you have completed your outlap on xbox your tyres are completely up to temperature. Comparing this to the PC, it's a different story. I have to do two laps before I reach the same temperature as I do the xbox.

2. There is a lot more front end grip on the xbox 360. The PC version has a lot more understeer than the xbox 360, but then the xbox has a much looser back end than on the PC. The places I was able to floor it on the PC completely took me by surprise because there is no way in hell I could floor it in, for example, turn 5 at hungary (as i'm practising that for the upcoming league race). I went from playing for an hour on the PC and then onto the xbox (from one online qualifying session to another) and I was all over the place. It was so different for me that it took a good 30 minutes just to get back into a rhythm on the xbox and remember to be a lot more patient when coming out of corners, as well as many other things.

3. The brakes are also different (may be due to the balance of the car with the less front end...). I have found that I can put a lot more pressure when braking on the PC compared to the xbox; but trailbraking seems a lot more ineffective on the PC. Trailbraking is the be all and end all of getting fast times on the xbox, whereas on the PC it is a lot more forgiving when braking (and locking up) and therefore trailbraking is not so important. (I hope this makes sense)

Although it is early days for me, I do have the impression that the xbox side is slightly quicker when qualifying online. I hit 1.18.2's and .3's on the xbox 360 round Hungary in the Mclaren. Whereas on the PC I could only hit 1.19.0's (although I know there is time to come off it, I don't feel there is 8 tenths). However, in time trial I think it works out to be pretty much even. I spent 30 minutes this evening round Hungary to see what time I could do and I hit a 1.17.2 which took #1 legit time and was only 2 tenths off #1 time on xbox. The fact that the tyre and brake temperatures are constantly at their optimal means that it takes out one of the problems of not having your tyre/brake temperatures warm enough.

There are a few more but as it's just gone half 1 in the morning here I can't really think of them. I'll be sure to add more of the differences I find as and when I discover/remember them!

Thanks!

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Thank's Matty! What you said completely covered what Mike and I discussed last two days. The main points were the speed you get completely worn primes at Spa (just after Kemmel straight) while on PC you need like 1.5 to 2 laps to get good warm tyres. The second one was the tyre temps on Silverstone where XBox players had really yellow front left and slightly yellow front right while on PC you can't warm tyres like this no matter what you do (teste by me). And the front grip - it's obvious once you look XBox video and PC video. Matty it's normal if you have more front grip to have less rear grip. I think that's why on XBox you have loose rear while on PC it's kind of glued. If you want that loose rear end you're gonna need to add some front wing.
Here are two examples from Hockenheim. If anybody is able to make a comparison I'd be really happy

 

[Andrew Ford]

Hello guys, thought I'd come and give my opinion on what the differences are between xbox and PC!


Thanks!

nice to see you on here mate. like others, a big fan of your channel. i like the detail you went into and you seem to have answered lots of people's questions.
it is interesting though that whilst you've gone from xbox to pc - you feel if anything, you would be faster on xbox. conversely, i went from pc to xbox and if anything, i feel i would be faster on pc.

also, i hear what people say now about rear being lighter because of more stable front end. perhaps this is the case. i didn't notice it.

what i would say is that, when all is said and done, a person's time on both platforms will be remarkably similar.

p.s. does this meant that ur going to start competing on pc in different games?

Thanks

 

[Mike Partington]

Thanks x M a t t y G, as Victor said that is everything myself and he had discussed recently.

Since everyone has Hungary next ( I did it last week with only 30 mins practice) it is very nice to see your times and as everyone thought you are one of the fastest guys out there. For me and several of the fastest people I know on the PC manage a 1.18.7-.9 as a top lap with 1.19.0-.2 been an average good lap and getting a low 18 like the xbox guys would require something special.

If it was the same then you would of reached the same times but some of your opinions are interesting and concerning at the same time. While on the xbox you can push your tyre temps beyond its optimal temperature which would impact driving style and speed, on the PC we can not, so in that regard the xbox version maybe better but then again with the tyres not warming up so quick on the PC it gives extra strategy as to how many Q laps you do and your pit stops during a race as you will have cold tyres for a lap.

Front grip combined with acceleration is everything and I think the xbox guys get more speed out of it but while I would not want more front grip on the PC version, knowing that you guys also have less rear has disappointed me as that is one of the things I dislike most of this years game, as well as it feeling like you have traction control on all the time.

Hard to comment about trail braking, and although I think the brakes are much much better this year I don't believe I do that much trail braking I may just not notice I am doing it.

I actually kinda wish I could race in the 50% at ARL just to race against you instead of the 100% .

 

[x M a t t y G]

Thanks x M a t t y G, as Victor said that is everything myself and he had discussed recently.

Since everyone has Hungary next ( I did it last week with only 30 mins practice) it is very nice to see your times and as everyone thought you are one of the fastest guys out there. For me and several of the fastest people I know on the PC manage a 1.18.7-.9 as a top lap with 1.19.0-.2 been an average good lap and getting a low 18 like the xbox guys would require something special.

If it was the same then you would of reached the same times but some of your opinions are interesting and concerning at the same time. While on the xbox you can push your tyre temps beyond its optimal temperature which would impact driving style and speed, on the PC we can not, so in that regard the xbox version maybe better but then again with the tyres not warming up so quick on the PC it gives extra strategy as to how many Q laps you do and your pit stops during a race as you will have cold tyres for a lap.

Front grip combined with acceleration is everything and I think the xbox guys get more speed out of it but while I would not want more front grip on the PC version, knowing that you guys also have less rear has disappointed me as that is one of the things I dislike most of this years game, as well as it feeling like you have traction control on all the time.

Hard to comment about trail braking, and although I think the brakes are much much better this year I don't believe I do that much trail braking I may just not notice I am doing it.

I actually kinda wish I could race in the 50% at ARL just to race against you instead of the 100% .

Thanks for the kind word guys!

I think I may have to take back the bit about online being slower on the PC than the xbox. I just hit a 1.18.339 in an online session on the PC which is actually 0.06 faster than my PB on the xbox! The lap was also done on my 2nd flying run which meant my tyres and brakes were up to temperature. After a little bit of running today, I definitely think my times will come down maybe a little bit more to a 18.1 or 18.2. So I do think the time is there to be made on the PC and hopefully I will nail exactly where the time is made on the PC to share with you guys!

Andrew Ford - I tried iRacing a while ago but got quickly bored of constantly losing my SR to assholes. I'm just going to concentrate on F1 2012 on the PC for now

 

[Mike Partington]

Thanks for the kind word guys!

I think I may have to take back the bit about online being slower on the PC than the xbox. I just hit a 1.18.339 in an online session on the PC which is actually 0.06 faster than my PB on the xbox! The lap was also done on my 2nd flying run which meant my tyres and brakes were up to temperature. After a little bit of running today, I definitely think my times will come down maybe a little bit more to a 18.1 or 18.2. So I do think the time is there to be made on the PC and hopefully I will nail exactly where the time is made on the PC to share with you guys!

Oh nice, well maybe I should do more practice then . If you could share a video that would be awesome so I could compare.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Or at least sector times would be enough Please don't tell you've ignored T4

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Oh nice, well maybe I should do more practice then . If you could share a video that would be awesome so I could compare.

Le he plays on Le core2duo. I'm surprised he can even play it.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Le he plays on Le core2duo. I'm surprised he can even play it.

That's another conspiracy theory slow cpu with lower graphics - faster lap times

 

[Mike Partington]

That's another conspiracy theory slow cpu with lower graphics - faster lap times

Don't get me started with that please. Could have been pure co-incidence. Also with the xbox running at 30 fps, I am not sure I could play the game so low.

 

[x M a t t y G]

Or at least sector times would be enough Please don't tell you've ignored T4

Sector times were:

1st sector: 28.0
2nd sector: 28.0
3rd sector: 28.2
= 1.18.339

I don't have the exact number but I remember that

My PC will explode if I were to record, but I think if you look at my youtube channel and check out some of my videos (www.youtube.com/xmattyg1), you will see I am a fair driver and don't miss out corners lol.

I'm not too sure about the slower PC = faster times surely the lag makes me slower?

 

[Andrew Ford]

i think that time of 1.18.339 on pc just changed lots of things lol