F1 2012 F1 2012 - griplevel between PC and console

[SoTD]

Hey guys,

i know there was a thread a while ago about a driver named Noble where we discussed his obviously huge amount of grip and downforce he had while driving Codemasters F1 2011 on the Xbox 360 compared to other guys. In this thread, someone threw the question in, if the griplevel between PC and console is different, sadly no one could answer it back then, because most of the guys here driving on PC.

There were discussions about wether or not Noble was using some kind of grip hack bla bla, all that kind of crap, that's where the thread went kind of out of control a bit.

But anyways, i never believed Noble or any other of the Xbox 360 ARL-guys were using hacks. Noble was and is still, one of the fastest driver on the Xbox 360 now in Codemasters F1 2012. If you want to watch his videos, check out his youtube channel.

So, as i said, Noble is a really good driver on the Xbox 360, and i would rate myself a pretty good driver on the PC too. You can check out some of my hotlaps and stuff on my youtube channel, so you'll have kind of a comparision i guess.

Now, to come back to my original question, does anyone here have experience in driving Codemasters F1 2012 on PC AND Xbox 360 or PS3? I basically ask this because i like to watch Noble's videos and sometimes, not always i see a huge gap (about a sec) between his times in qualifying and the times really good PC drivers can do. I basically know a guy who has a good amount of sim racing experience on the PC and is also really really fast at Codemasters F1 2012 on PC and after i sent him Noble's Monaco hotlap he just said to me, Noble has way more grip than you are used to on PC. Another example would be this video. A driver named "TyranoTigger" drives a 1:35.093 in qualifying in Valencia. That time equals about rank #5 on the PC global leaderboard in TT. So he drives this time with fuel and tyre-simulation on and would be about rank #5 on the PC leaderboard against people with fuel and tyre-simulation off. Maybe he is just that good, i don't know, but i would like to hear from a person who has experienced Codemasters F1 2012 on PC and console and also i would like to see some leaderboard times from Xbox 360 so i can compare it to the ones from PC. Maybe we PC-users just suck, who knows.

 

[Tom]

I can only speak about F1 2011 and the difference between PC & PS3. Basically, there's none in terms of grip level. Of course, I never played it on my 360.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Well, I haven't played on a console, but the difference is more than obvious. I'd say that the best players playing this game are on the PC. When you watch PC gameplay you see many, many people going on the limit. Yet to see anyone driving on the limit on PS3 (haven't searched tho...) and on xbox.. Well Noble is unbeatable and to be honest, watching his videos now on 2012, I see maybe 4-5 mistakes on his hotlaps on most of the videos. Which would mean that Xbox doesn't have awesome players too. But on the PC, I've seen many guys just being on the limit.

And actually comparing drivers from Xbox and PC is not right. Neither they'll beat us on PC nor we'll beat them on the Xbox. We're used to our car handling. The fact that is sure is that Xbox = more grip. Some people just can't handle that much grip. Some people on the Xbox won't be able to handle our grip because it will be way too low for them.

All we can tell you is that - Noble is a really good driver. On the Xbox he's dominating. That's it. If he ever wishes to play on PC, we're going to know. Otherwise, we can just talk about it.

And grip levels, I already said it. It's way too obvious. On F1 2011 there was a time when I was going like "WTF" how does this guy have so much grip. And after that I got told the answer.

Oh, and also one more thing came to my mind. Xbox users have 2011-like setup. Just with 1-1 wings. They use 1-11 arb / 1-1-11-11 suspension / left left right right alignment. Just like we used on F1 2011. So there are some massive difference in the games if you get the most grip with 11-11 suspension stiffness. I can almost never use that thing on PC. Only 1-2 tracks are actually good for it. Other than those tracks you'll slide all over the place with 11-11 stiffness (just lack of grip..).

 

[SoTD]

Oh, and also one more thing came to my mind. Xbox users have 2011-like setup. Just with 1-1 wings. They use 1-11 arb / 1-1-11-11 suspension / left left right right alignment. Just like we used on F1 2011. So there are some massive difference in the games if you get the most grip with 11-11 suspension stiffness. I can almost never use that thing on PC. Only 1-2 tracks are actually good for it. Other than those tracks you'll slide all over the place with 11-11 stiffness (just lack of grip..).

I don't think so. I basically drive on almost every circuit with 1-1 wings and do have no problems at all.

 

[Mike Partington]

There for sure are differences. I was watching Nobles video at Silverstone and noticed his front left tyre temperature was going yellow and while I and many other drivers can hit the limits around that track on PC I have yet to ever experience my tyres doing that. Although I do recall it happening in the demo when I lost the car and had massive wheel spin.

This would make me believe they do infact have a slight edge in terms of grip by been able to push the tyre beyond its temp limits while we for some reason cannot.

If anyone else has experienced this post patches on PC please say. I will try and find his video where this happens.

 

[SoTD]

There for sure are differences. I was watching Nobles video at Silverstone and noticed his front left tyre temperature was going yellow and while I and many other drivers can hit the limits around that track on PC I have yet to ever experience my tyres doing that. Although I do recall it happening in the demo when I lost the car and had massive wheel spin.

This would make me believe they do infact have a slight edge in terms of grip by been able to push the tyre beyond its temp limits while we for some reason cannot.

If anyone else has experienced this post patches on PC please say. I will try and find his video where this happens.

Yea, i noticed the yellow tyre temperature on his car too. Thought it was a bug because it never happened to me while pushing the car to the limit.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

I don't think so. I basically drive on almost every circuit with 1-1 wings and do have no problems at all.

Ugh... That's what I said?

 

[SoTD]

Ugh... That's what I said?

What do you mean? Noble is using 1-1 wings for almost every track. I also use 1-1 wings on almost every track on PC.

 

[Karl Fuss]

I think there is a driver here who has a PC version and xbox version of 2012 (i may be wrong) but Andrew Ford if you are around and have both versions of 2012 have you done any tests to compare PC to Xbox?

 

[Kristian Nenov]

What do you mean? Noble is using 1-1 wings for almost every track. I also use 1-1 wings on almost every track on PC.

Exactly. I said without wings, they use 2011-like setup. We don't. Or at least me plus the people I race with do not.

 

[Andrew Ford]

I think there is a driver here who has a PC version and xbox version of 2012 (i may be wrong) but Andrew Ford if you are around and have both versions of 2012 have you done any tests to compare PC to Xbox?

SoTD
Mike Partington
Tom Endres
Kristian Nenov
Karl Fuss

Hi guys. Responding to Karl's @ post (nice to hear from you Karl.
Firstly, don't want to offend anyone on here. I am currently subscribed to Kristian's youtube and rate him highly. sure you other guys are fast - think i've seen a video of you SotD (assuming i got the abbreviation correct).

however, i'm in a priviledged position of owning the game on xbox and pc.
i got f1 2011 on xbox when it came out. i then got a pc and purchased different games including rfactor 2, race 07/gtr evolution and f1 2012.

i have raced more on pc as my fanatec csr has ffb but it's useless on xbox.

as a comparison, i did some tt at china and after lots of practise, i think i got to rank 30 odd on pc with a time in the high 1.32 (i could be getting mixed up with malaysia but i think it's china). something like 1.32.6. i then went onto xbox for a race club event. it's hard to compare as the loss of force feedback was tough - the wheel felt light and the csr would not re-centre itself - so the feel was different. however, after 1 gp of about 28 laps, i went and did some tt. after about 10 laps i called it a day with a time in the low 1.33's and rank 122 on xbox.
i was about half a second off the pc time. with more practise i would say i could have made the same time but there was certainly no more grip. in fact, if anything, there was less grip as there is still screeching happening more often- lateral slides.
another example would be abu dhabi. i think i got in the top 40 tt on pc. when i went to xbox, again i was hindered a bit by the lack of feel but after a few laps, i was slower than on pc. i could have got used to it and posted a similar time to pc but would have needed more practise. there was certainly no more grip. you have to trust me on this.

generally the pc drivers i have come up against are on a whole different level - they are generally more experienced and knowledgeable about racing. they have to be to invest the money in high end pc's and rigs. sometimes it's like men against boys (not always) and many who play xbox are young boys or arcade racers. i have become a better driver since joining pc because i have more experience but also, i have been exposed to many different sim games. ..how many sims has xbox?

however, there are many exceptions and it's interesting to not that on both sprint modes - for bother platforms - the mentality is still largely appalling!ha!

regarding noble, i rate him extremely highly. he is a nice guy. he's replied to my messages. his channel commentary shows he is a very intelligent young guy. his teammate and friend mattyg is intelligent, fast and yet all of the arl top league acknowledge he is the fastest guy. when he loses, it's usually because he hasn't practise as much.i've yet to see someone as fast and as consistent. he;s like a machine! no cutting either. whether you agree or not, his channel has got a lot of interest from ps and pc users. its ok to say that he's the best. it doesn't belittle pc or ps gamers reputations. he's a good guy and he's fast. more importantly, he's not got any advantages. his so called "better grip" is down to his driving style and line. show me and example where he has better grip? he has great feel for the car. look, in the dry second place arl raven can push him hard and sometimes win (if noble hasn't practised). put him in the wet and he's streets ahead of these guys. that's no coincidence. where did all their xbox grip go in the rain? nowhere. he just has the feel, knowledge and intelligence. remember, he's doing that without any ffb/wheel centering. he's actually at a disadvantage if anything.

i have said to him i would like him to try pc gaming - i'm just curious as to how he would do.
my first impressions were that he would be off the pace against a bono huis/morand because f1 2012 has far more grip on all platforms than rfactor or definitely rfactor 2.i think that the tyres might suffer at first.

again, however, i think he could adapt really well. he says he tried rfactor briefly and did "pretty well". also, one of the arl drivers, tiadtmarke? posted a hotlap of himelf on rfactor and it was very competitive time using the fsr 2012 mod (something like a 1.35 around china with kers and drs) compared to huis 1.36 (no drs/kers). noble is much faster than this guy tho.he knows the line, he knows then to late apex. his braking has been spot on in two very different f1 games and the odd time i've seen him on forza4, he's beaten the opposition when simply mucking around.

so i ramble (sorry). in summary, if anything, pc edges grip (back end slightly more unstable under cornering - more prone to screeching) pc has ffb/wheel centering to support drivers.
i'm higher rated on tt in pc altho with practise i could probs be the same on xbox - certainly no better. noble is in my opinion, the best f1 2012 driver and could adapt to be the best on many other games - regardless of platform. he even won a car part from a lotus f1 car due to his clean lap at racenet brazil. (no cutting unlike some others). his channel is thriving on youtube and that speaks volumes. only thing left to say...i wish he would get a pc so we could compare him on a different game such as rfactor 2 - with more credibility. wouldn't that be simcredible?lol

p.s. sorry for spellings. i type to much too quickly

 

[Andrew Ford]

Exactly. I said without wings, they use 2011-like setup. We don't. Or at least me plus the people I race with do not.

yes but on time attack it is default setup and he is still incredibly quick

 

[Andrew Ford]

There for sure are differences. I was watching Nobles video at Silverstone and noticed his front left tyre temperature was going yellow and while I and many other drivers can hit the limits around that track on PC I have yet to ever experience my tyres doing that. Although I do recall it happening in the demo when I lost the car and had massive wheel spin.

This would make me believe they do infact have a slight edge in terms of grip by been able to push the tyre beyond its temp limits while we for some reason cannot.

If anyone else has experienced this post patches on PC please say. I will try and find his video where this happens.

this may be me being naive but losing grip doesn't have to be as a result of tyre temperature does it? it's to do with forces also. so noble is working his tyres to a nice hot temperature (obviously wear will be a factor later on) but perhaps he's not, as an example, sliding the car laterally as much as you? not seen you drive so might be wrong. i just mean, loss of grip can be due to other factor as you probably know. you get my point? sorry if i'm teaching granny to suck eggs (second time i've used that phrase today lol)

 

[SoTD]

Thank's for your answer. Don't understand me wrong Andrew, i never said Noble uses a grip hack or has unbelievable more grip than others. It's easy to spot that he is fast because he almost never leave the racing line combined with perfect steering angle around corners which gives him max turn in and grip which is crucial in F1 2012 because else you just understeer around corners. I was just seeking informations about Xbox 360 compared to PC because the discussion came up in F1 2011 and i never got an answer from a driver with experience who owns a Xbox 360 AND PC with F1 2011/F1 2012.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

SoTD
Mike Partington
Tom Endres
Kristian Nenov
Karl Fuss

Hi guys. Responding to Karl's @ post (nice to hear from you Karl.
Firstly, don't want to offend anyone on here. I am currently subscribed to Kristian's youtube and rate him highly. sure you other guys are fast - think i've seen a video of you SotD (assuming i got the abbreviation correct).

however, i'm in a priviledged position of owning the game on xbox and pc.
i got f1 2011 on xbox when it came out. i then got a pc and purchased different games including rfactor 2, race 07/gtr evolution and f1 2012.

i have raced more on pc as my fanatec csr has ffb but it's useless on xbox.

as a comparison, i did some tt at china and after lots of practise, i think i got to rank 30 odd on pc with a time in the high 1.32 (i could be getting mixed up with malaysia but i think it's china). something like 1.32.6. i then went onto xbox for a race club event. it's hard to compare as the loss of force feedback was tough - the wheel felt light and the csr would not re-centre itself - so the feel was different. however, after 1 gp of about 28 laps, i went and did some tt. after about 10 laps i called it a day with a time in the low 1.33's and rank 122 on xbox.
i was about half a second off the pc time. with more practise i would say i could have made the same time but there was certainly no more grip. in fact, if anything, there was less grip as there is still screeching happening more often- lateral slides.
another example would be abu dhabi. i think i got in the top 40 tt on pc. when i went to xbox, again i was hindered a bit by the lack of feel but after a few laps, i was slower than on pc. i could have got used to it and posted a similar time to pc but would have needed more practise. there was certainly no more grip. you have to trust me on this.

generally the pc drivers i have come up against are on a whole different level - they are generally more experienced and knowledgeable about racing. they have to be to invest the money in high end pc's and rigs. sometimes it's like men against boys (not always) and many who play xbox are young boys or arcade racers. i have become a better driver since joining pc because i have more experience but also, i have been exposed to many different sim games. ..how many sims has xbox?

however, there are many exceptions and it's interesting to not that on both sprint modes - for bother platforms - the mentality is still largely appalling!ha!

regarding noble, i rate him extremely highly. he is a nice guy. he's replied to my messages. his channel commentary shows he is a very intelligent young guy. his teammate and friend mattyg is intelligent, fast and yet all of the arl top league acknowledge he is the fastest guy. when he loses, it's usually because he hasn't practise as much.i've yet to see someone as fast and as consistent. he;s like a machine! no cutting either. whether you agree or not, his channel has got a lot of interest from ps and pc users. its ok to say that he's the best. it doesn't belittle pc or ps gamers reputations. he's a good guy and he's fast. more importantly, he's not got any advantages. his so called "better grip" is down to his driving style and line. show me and example where he has better grip? he has great feel for the car. look, in the dry second place arl raven can push him hard and sometimes win (if noble hasn't practised). put him in the wet and he's streets ahead of these guys. that's no coincidence. where did all their xbox grip go in the rain? nowhere. he just has the feel, knowledge and intelligence. remember, he's doing that without any ffb/wheel centering. he's actually at a disadvantage if anything.

i have said to him i would like him to try pc gaming - i'm just curious as to how he would do.
my first impressions were that he would be off the pace against a bono huis/morand because f1 2012 has far more grip on all platforms than rfactor or definitely rfactor 2.i think that the tyres might suffer at first.

again, however, i think he could adapt really well. he says he tried rfactor briefly and did "pretty well". also, one of the arl drivers, tiadtmarke? posted a hotlap of himelf on rfactor and it was very competitive time using the fsr 2012 mod (something like a 1.35 around china with kers and drs) compared to huis 1.36 (no drs/kers). noble is much faster than this guy tho.he knows the line, he knows then to late apex. his braking has been spot on in two very different f1 games and the odd time i've seen him on forza4, he's beaten the opposition when simply mucking around.

so i ramble (sorry). in summary, if anything, pc edges grip (back end slightly more unstable under cornering - more prone to screeching) pc has ffb/wheel centering to support drivers.
i'm higher rated on tt in pc altho with practise i could probs be the same on xbox - certainly no better. noble is in my opinion, the best f1 2012 driver and could adapt to be the best on many other games - regardless of platform. he even won a car part from a lotus f1 car due to his clean lap at racenet brazil. (no cutting unlike some others). his channel is thriving on youtube and that speaks volumes. only thing left to say...i wish he would get a pc so we could compare him on a different game such as rfactor 2 - with more credibility. wouldn't that be simcredible?lol

p.s. sorry for spellings. i type to much too quickly

Now that's a nice essay there.

Anyways.

On F1 2011 I used no FFB at all too. On F1 2012 I sometimes don't use FFB because it makes too much noise and that's bad when I have to drive at night. I wouldn't say FFB gives or takes advantage. Actually I'm pretty sure on 2011 I would do worse with FFB.

But anyways, for 2012. Before I start writing, I'm gonna say this now so you don't get me wrong. I respect Noble as a driver. I've even learned from him before time. There's no question he's an awesome driver.

I'm watching his videos now. You MAY be right about the grip being the same. But you know what's different? Firstly, it seems like the car accelerates faster but I could be wrong. I've been doing only high fuel runs lately so it may seem to me fast just because of that. Secondly and more importantly. Take a look at this lap:

Study-watch it. Don't just skip through it. Now take a look at his turn in for example T1 of sector 2. He throws the wheel really fast into the corner and gets no understeer. I do the same thing, slower tho. But on PC I get understeer for like 0,5 secs. So you have to actually turn in before you want the car to turn in. On Xbox, it's like on 2011 - throw the wheel and it turns. That's a massive difference. Now look at the next turn. It's a downforce turn. Incredible downforce through the turn. No doubt. Call me noob if you want to, but I can't take that turn so easily with such speed. Then on 1:04 - the last turn of s2. He just throws the wheel really fast to the left. What does the car do? Turn in. On PC you just can't be so aggressive to the car. You have to adapt to the car. On Xbox he can clearly drive the car the way he wants to.


Like I said before, the games are different. It's just stupid to compare them. Like you said, even the wheel handles differently. So I'm pretty sure if I do go to Xbox, he's gonna beat my ass to deep red. No doubt about that. If he switches to PC, he probably won't beat us too. It took him and us months to get used to this game and be on the pace we are. So when switching from console to PC or the other way round - it's going to be like playing a new game.

And again, I didn't mean to insult Noble. I'm just pointing out that Xbox is different to PC. I hope nobody gets mad. I'm not doing it with bad intentions.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Oh, and sorry for double posting. Someone may not see it on the other. Noble has 1 friend. MattyG. MattyG is going to race on PC this sunday. I'm really looking forward to see his performance. If he rapes everyone, I'm gonna take my words back and confirm that PC = Xbox. But if he doesn't - it means the games differ.

 

[Mike Partington]

this may be me being naive but losing grip doesn't have to be as a result of tyre temperature does it? it's to do with forces also. so noble is working his tyres to a nice hot temperature (obviously wear will be a factor later on) but perhaps he's not, as an example, sliding the car laterally as much as you? not seen you drive so might be wrong. i just mean, loss of grip can be due to other factor as you probably know. you get my point? sorry if i'm teaching granny to suck eggs (second time i've used that phrase today lol)

Well I don't know about it changing the level of grip in this game because well we know this game isn't the most realistic when it comes to physics but I was more pointing out that it is something I have noticed on his video and something that I have never seen in my races or anyone elses on the PC. So it shows there is a potential difference in the games which was the question raised.

On another note I can match and some others I know can match Noble's times on some tracks so it could also mean that there is no difference but then at some tracks, we on the PC are half a second slower. That could just be that Noble and several others on the xbox are just that much better on those tracks. Also I am not sure how much these guys practice but practice does make a difference and if I were to practice more I could perhaps go that 0.5 second faster. An example would be Canada I am 1 tenth of a lap Noble posted and I know someone who can go 2 tenths quicker than him on PC, but like above in China I can just about do a mid 33, nevermind a mid 32 and no one I know on PC can do a 32 there.

Another interesting thing is what Matty at ARL has mentioned yesterday now in that he is playing on the PC, that the xbox has more front grip, and given he uses a pad for both I think his opinion holds some weight.

Last year the xbox was about 1 second faster than the PC I at least believe but this year the gap is smaller and almost none at some tracks.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Oh, yeah. Mike reminded me.

however, i have found that the PC and xbox games feel very different indeed!! I went from playing on the PC to the xbox and I was seriously off the pace! (It seems like on the PC the cars are a lot more planted but have less of a front end on them, it's very strange)

That's MattyG. Top Xbox player. Confirmed now?

I'm happy my eyes didn't lie to me!

 

[Andrew Ford]

Kristian Nenov
love the essay thing...you still have a few hundred words to write lol

i must say, i know ur a great competitor so i thank you for being so honest and respectful with your reply.

regarding the wheel - i don't mean the vibrations of the wheel - i mean the wheel centering force. all real life cars centre when you press the throttle. as you know, throttle/braking inputs relate to the steering and if you accelerate with the wheel turn full lock , you aint gonna have the grip/speed you want. so if the wheel begins to self centre, it just helps you know when to push and to keep smoother throttle inputs.

on f1 2011, i actually turned off ffb on xbox and wheel weight down. it was a different came and it was more about reactions and throwin the wheel. i gained success by braking as little as possible as quick as possible and throwing wheel as quick as possible.

f1 2012 isn't perfect. sometimes it's massively inconsistent but braking distances are more realistic. it rewards trail braking. it rewards a closer link between braking/throttle inputs and steering.

about nobles lap...it's his technique of braking which allows him to throw the wheel.
i have to say that even tho you are faster than me, you don't have to throw ur wheel earlier. you have to brake better for the game.

here is a lap i did at hockenheim about 3 days ago:

iwas only rank 250.
i went away and studied his braking technique and i got to 1.14.035. not world beating but about rank 130. in the video you see me brake for the hairpin and i lose lot of time braking and turning. however, the next day (in cockpit cam) i trail braked just the right amount, and turn in was perfect.

you get punished massively if you brake and turn too much at the same time. you get punished massively for braking and turning wheel too quickly. you get punished for turning too much at a speed that's not appropriate and you get punished for braking and down-changing too early in the braking phase. also, you get punished massively for doing what you could do in f1 2011...threshold brake - brake in straight line, off the brakes and throw the wheel. i must try it and show you the effect if you don't already know.

on the hairpin at china, noble is trail braking to just the right speed (instinctive and thru practise) he's nearly at the corner, throws the wheel to help get ready to get power back down and he's on throttle early. he is a master of throttle control.

one problem i do have is that i took my rubbish lap (as shown) and placed it in sony vegas alongside matt g's lap ( a 1.13). i was a second slower and yet on the speedometer, i was nearly always going a faster speed than him - straights and apex's for longer! i'm guessing that is a fault with the game modes as i was in tt and he was in online quali :-S

interesting read though mate. thanks!

ps. i couldn'#t beat him or you lol

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Kristian Nenov
love the essay thing...you still have a few hundred words to write lol

i must say, i know ur a great competitor so i thank you for being so honest and respectful with your reply.

regarding the wheel - i don't mean the vibrations of the wheel - i mean the wheel centering force. all real life cars centre when you press the throttle. as you know, throttle/braking inputs relate to the steering and if you accelerate with the wheel turn full lock , you aint gonna have the grip/speed you want. so if the wheel begins to self centre, it just helps you know when to push and to keep smoother throttle inputs.

on f1 2011, i actually turned off ffb on xbox and wheel weight down. it was a different came and it was more about reactions and throwin the wheel. i gained success by braking as little as possible as quick as possible and throwing wheel as quick as possible.

f1 2012 isn't perfect. sometimes it's massively inconsistent but braking distances are more realistic. it rewards trail braking. it rewards a closer link between braking/throttle inputs and steering.

about nobles lap...it's his technique of braking which allows him to throw the wheel.
i have to say that even tho you are faster than me, you don't have to throw ur wheel earlier. you have to brake better for the game.

here is a lap i did at hockenheim about 3 days ago:

iwas only rank 250.
i went away and studied his braking technique and i got to 1.14.035. not world beating but about rank 130. in the video you see me brake for the hairpin and i lose lot of time braking and turning. however, the next day (in cockpit cam) i trail braked just the right amount, and turn in was perfect.

you get punished massively if you brake and turn too much at the same time. you get punished massively for braking and turning wheel too quickly. you get punished for turning too much at a speed that's not appropriate and you get punished for braking and down-changing too early in the braking phase. also, you get punished massively for doing what you could do in f1 2011...threshold brake - brake in straight line, off the brakes and throw the wheel. i must try it and show you the effect if you don't already know.

on the hairpin at china, noble is trail braking to just the right speed (instinctive and thru practise) he's nearly at the corner, throws the wheel to help get ready to get power back down and he's on throttle early. he is a master of throttle control.

one problem i do have is that i took my rubbish lap (as shown) and placed it in sony vegas alongside matt g's lap ( a 1.13). i was a second slower and yet on the speedometer, i was nearly always going a faster speed than him - straights and apex's for longer! i'm guessing that is a fault with the game modes as i was in tt and he was in online quali :-S

interesting read though mate. thanks!

ps. i couldn'#t beat him or you lol

Ugh, about the lap. Do yourself a favor and do not use brakes for T1.

Anyways, back to topic. When you do what he did on China - you do understeer on the PC. It depends on your speed, yes. But when I'm driving as fast as the car (and more likely I..) can go the car just understeers. This should happen when you overdrive the car but it actually happens without doing it. Because the car can surely take the corner with that speed, it just needs time to .. I don't know.. Prepare? for the corner.

I do not talk about Noble, but Xbox. I haven't put in question his throttle abilities ( I think you said throttle). I'm just saying that on the PC you can't take the corner like that.