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F1 2011 Mechanical Failures, or HOW it would be implemented in the game?

Discussion in 'F1 2011 - The Game' started by d3fl3xion, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. Hello everyone,

    *OFF TOPIC*
    This is my fist post/thread in this forum. What brought me here (and also in the official CM forum) were the problems after the patch. I played F1 2010 soon after its launch in 2010 but after half e season in career I gave up because of the punctures and other bugs that players suffered at that time. In May this year I started playing again as soon as I heard that they released a patch. Another disappointment was waiting for me as I saw the disappearing puddles and I started looking in the forums. I applied the CM fix but after that I realized massive FPS drop as many other users did (note that I am running on an old laptop with Radeon 2400XT 256MB). That lead to my second "give up" from the game :).
    *OFF TOPIC*


    Enough for me and the off-topic session. Now we all (or at least most of us) look forward to F1 2011. Until now I saw only several screens for the new game and a couple of unofficial news. I would like to draw your attention to the mechanical failures as they were announced (not officially I think). I could say for myself that I am a hard gamer and I have been playing racing games from the early 2000's with the release of F1 2001 and 2002. For everyone that played those game should be clear that the mechanical failures (e.g suspension, brakes, gearbox etc.) were present at that time and the player could choose between time-scaled mechanics for failures and season(this should be according to the current season failures that happened during the races). The second option was... a bit disappointing for me because no one would like to race for a team that finished 3-4 races out of 16. So time-scaled option was the option that I used and as I remember it was taking into account the actual race distance (rescaling the time-scaled mechanical failure systems according to the chosen distance, eg. 25% race distance - 4x times faster tyre wear, 4x times faster engine deterioration etc.)

    So I gave that little example just to show you how my thoughts are running when I look into the F1 2011 poster :) We all anticipate that there will be failures not caused by crash but inevitable materials wear and etc. According to me this will bring the game big amount of realism that was absent in F1 2010 (quite a big mistake I think..) So from the example above it is clear that these mechanical failures can be brought into the game. (At least it was possible for 2000 year...) So lets proceed to my actual topic. How would these failure mechanisms be implemented in the game without ruining the gameplay and the pleasure of playing an F1 game.(As it happened with tyre punctures in the pre-patched version F1 2010)

    Lets divide them into points:

    1. Engine

    According to me engine units in F1 sport is the second decisive factor for the performance of the car after the pilot himself. Proper engine units provide more power, more flexible power output and allow more aggressive gearing and higher top speeds. Engine wear is also a big factor. For the lower teams the engines are less durable(in some cases) and usually provide less power and can support less RPM per lap. According to my thoughts engine failures should be the least calculation heavy mechanical failure algorithm needed for a proper gameplay without unrealistic engine crashes and so on. This type of failures could be connected with:
    1) Overall engine wear achived before the session
    2) Over REVs achieved by the pilot per lap
    3) Standard engine unit durability achieved by the team mechanics
    AND 4)Engine temperature maintained by the pilot by reaching the REV limits and aggressively shifted gears

    Those 4 factors for me are the decisive factors that can be connected with the gameplay and could be taken into account by the pilot(gamer) without ruining the whole fun. I expect further suggestions about how this could happen.


    2. Gearbox

    Gearboxes were the weak spot for most of the racing cars throughout the years until now. (Maybe someone could remember how Ayrton Senna finished a race in the early 90s stuck on his 6th gear for the last five laps of the race.) This could be very dangerous for the game designers because in my opinion the gearbox durability depends on the design of the gearbox itself. Again aggressive shifting and impacts(from the back) during races could cause such a problem. So... let's say:
    1) Aggressive gearing (many gear shifts in a race) could cause the problem
    2) Again gearbox durability achieved by the team mechanics
    3) Some impacts.(not entirely sure about that, waiting suggestions)

    3. Suspension

    Suspension glitches and failures during race are very common nowadays. The odd thing about the suspension is that it is connected particularly with the driving style above all. For example if you are racing in a weaker team(let's say in the beginning of your career) the durability of the car would be lower but you could avoid problems with suspension by keeping smooth racing line, avoiding debris or uneven surfaces on the track etc. This could lower your chance of damaging critically your suspension and again avoid ruining the whole gameplay and fun. So as the main causes I could emphasize:
    1)Off-the-line driving
    2)Aggressiveness by attacking kerbs and uneven surfaces
    3)Lesser impacts that could damage your suspension in longer races
    Again I am awaiting suggestions.

    4. Brakes

    Brakes...brakes brakes brakes. In F1 2010 there is something similar as a failure of braking system but not entirely. Temperature fluctuations and brake pressure DO affect brake wear by causing lock-ups but you couldn't actually damage your brakes to the point of permanent lock-up. This MUST be implemented in F1 2011! Brakes are as important as the tyres and if you damage your brakes and perform lock-ups on every turn this affects your tyre wear so they are connected. Personally when playing F1 2010 90% of the time I used high pressure on the brakes. That not only gave me shorted brake distance, therefore faster laps, but I felt the brakes more responsive and my last lap times were as good as the the first (very odd).
    1) Usage of brakes
    2) Brakes durability again
    3) Pressure on the brakes
    4) Lesser impacts that could damage the brakes(as well as the suspension and tyres in longer races)
    Again - suggestions.
    5. Clutch

    Mostly the clutch system in F1 is used on the start, in the pits and when re-entering the track after spin. Nowadays the F1 cars use double clutch system on the start and automatic clutch when shifting gears(automatized by the car electronics). I can't remember clearly but I thing in F1 2002 there WAS a clutch failure. I have now idea how this could be implemented in the game again without ruining the fun. Probable solution could be a "chance system" on the start of the race(around 1-2%) that you cant launch properly (As it happened with M.Schumacher in the last race in Monte Carlo). But again this chance should be bigger for lower tier teams and vice versa. The clutch failures during the actual race could be connected with the gearbox ending as bigger shift times or getting you out of the race.
    1) Proper chance (which is ODD)
    2) Gearbox and electronics connected problems.
    As I said, NO IDEA about the clutch failures. Waiting suggestions

    6. Punctures

    CodeMasters did a great job after the patch. Tyre punctures are less probable and are more connected with the racing line rather than just a chance. I like that. Also I have no clue why CM turned so much attention on the tyres and leaving the game with no other possible way for Do Not Finishing. (Tyres and Accident actually) Marbles and racing line and puddles look awesome (at least pre-patched version for me because of the FPS issue). Great job! Not enough though...
    Again if you have any suggestions related with tyre wear and punctures - you're welcome! :)

    As I final guys, I know this is a big field for thinking and if you are as keen on realism in F1 series as me, lets help those guys in CM studios with our suggestions and of course just give a little thought about how F1 2011 could be made better that its predecessor. I hope you like that thread, I know it is a little longer than usual. I found some similar threads but they are very short with some guys asking if there will be such thing as failures.
    Thank you guys, hope you post your ideas .
    Cheers!
     
  2. I think all you ideas are very valid, but, I stealing someone elses words here I can't remember who it is, if it's you i apologize, codemasters need to keep on the better side of frustration and realism, what fun is it if your engine keeps blowing up, or you get a break failure or any other problem. I think the best way they can improve the game is by improving the collision damage, I think they have they have got the mechanical faliures to a tea, because there aren't any. Put it this way, if you've done a 69 laps of a 70 lap GP at Canada and your engine blows, how annoyed would you be, I could see alot of people never playing the game again.
    Before I end, I just want to apologize about my former post that was here, I quote, 'no offence m8 but no-one will read this much writing', I said this for a joke and some people took it the wrong way, which I didn't want to happen.
     
  3. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    Speak for your self bcapps-jenner09.
    Some of will appreciate such a thorough and well documented piece.
    We don't all want to speak in text speak.
    lot, gr8,imho.
     
  4. Sorry guys if I disturb your rest, if you do not appreciate what I've written and if you don't give much thought of how the games you all play work and respectively how to make them better, please do not read this and there is no need to reply. For those who think this is "well documented piece", thank you. I'm still waiting suggestions.
    Take care!
     
  5. Erik Tveit

    Erik Tveit
    I can haz cookie?

    I think its great that you came out with your opinion. Better with much text and proper English than littl txt and not tht god englihh. :)
     
  6. I think my English is proper or not :)
     
  7. Wow OP - a really comprehensive breakdown. Breakdown, geddit? :D

    Yeah, I hate txt spk on forums - that thing in front of you is called a keyboard and has all the letters of the alphabet for a reason! I could cheerfully strangle whoever invented 'lol' and words like it.
     
  8. I think this thread is becoming not quite what expected to. :) Never mind, hope at least you read it... :)
     
  9. Chris Jenkins

    Chris Jenkins
    Driving til the wheels fall off

    Some valid points. I don't reckon Codemasters will go too far beyond engine blowups and suspension failures though.
    Although some of us like to get more techical, it would make it too much of a car mechanic/engineer game in some people's eyes if it was any more in-depth.
     
  10. I think they already confirmed their existence in the game. In my opinion in F1 2002 there WERE mechanical failures and they didn't at any point ruin the gameplay or were irritating at all. My point here was to explain how a given algorithm would work for the different kinds of failures. Some of them happen more random and more often than others which have very clear cause. For example in point 5. Clutch, I had no idea how such a mathematical equation would work. I think they should bring more realism to a racing of this kind, which is very much connected with the cars so not only the drivers should be in the light of the projectors.
    A solution may be a simple option in the options menu for disabling those features that you do not like. That was the case with the game a mentioned at the beginning. You can simply turn them off.
    Take care
     
  11. I think CM need to be careful that they don't venture too far down the simulation route with the mechanical failures; also I hope focusing on it will not lead to them ignoring errors that need correcting from F1 2010.
     
  12. Agree. The simple option to turn them off would solve the problem for player who do not want to be interrupted and like more arcade style of play. You know... ON-OFF :)
     
  13. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    My view and wish is that mechanical breakdowns have the following characteristics:
    1) That in the main their occurence be able to be mitigated by the drivers choices and skill: eg Less time on the limiter, realistic downshifts (currently engine braking is too advantageous through mad downshifting in my view)better eng temp management, less frequent jumping of kerbs, more time in std and cruise maps in race/quali.
    2) That they encourage driver to remove assists to enhance the management of failures eg: good manual gear shifting to give better gearbox life than auto, same with eng temp management, better brake durability w/out ABS, better drive train duarbility w/out TCS.
    This will reward the player that masters more skills.
    It will of course need to be disabled to provide a frustration free "near realsitic" experience for many. Only the nutters like us who want to plan and manage an on line season of engineering magnificence will relish the glory of some mechanical creeping in.
    Text speak translation follows for the time poor and concentration challenged:
    Imho, gr8 stuff for techs, danger for de massess bruv. lol. respec.
     
  14. Agree again! Most of that I mentioned in my thread eg. "realistic downshifting". I know that this may sound stupid but sometimes the failures can be cause by non-human error. We all think that CM haven't done the MF(mechanical failure) job in F1 2010 because of some... license issues (???!). Never mind, the world is divided into two - Realism-simulation-adventurous player who want to squeeze all of their potential to win a race and arcade-for the fun players who can not bare seeing themselves sitting second in the drivers championship. Hope at least half of what we discussed here goes into the game. Of course it will not be enough but... better than nothing.

    P.S I loved F1 2002 because of this spontaneous engine braking or suspension failures. It is F**N sweet to see yourself passing the smoking car of J.Villeneuve and becoming second :) Peace!
     
  15. Just like to say I remember leading the Brazilian GP, on the old GP2 Geoff Crammond game, by about 15 seconds with 2 laps left of the 71 when my engine blew up going down the pit straight. Hugely frustrating, I was really annoyed but I also accepted the realism of it made the game, dare I say it, a richer experience. Having seen Mansell, D. Hill and various others get caught out by this sort of thing it's a part of the sport.

    Make it an option at the very least.

    Anyway good thread, great detailed ideas in the start and good humour.
     
  16. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    Indeed: the frustration of a random mech failure was more than repayed when following the dastardly Schumacher and seeing him pull off with smoke in the cockpit.
     
  17. Yup, that is what I am talking about :)
    Nice to see you sharing the same feelings fellows ;)

    David O'Reilly, one question - what does "dastardly" mean, because I am not from UK? :)
     
  18. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    It means, cunning, evil, without morals in the pursuit of victory and personal gain.
    The word comes from an old movie about a car race. A central character was "Dick Dastardly".
    I look at Schumi I'm afraid and I see the man who happily drove a Bennetton with illegal traction control and launch control in 1994 and accepted victories against Senna in fact pressuring him when he was killed. The guy who rammed Damon Hill in Adelaide to win his first Title standing behind the barriers, rammed Villeneuve (in 97 I think) to try to win WDC, tried to run Rubens off the track recently.
    All I see is Dick Dastardly. Its just my opinion thats all.
     
  19. I see now. I recently watched a movie called "Senna", biographical documentary for Ayrton Senna which even my wife liked :)
    They mentioned something about the suspension and traction control and how Schumacher was using illegally these systems. Prior to that movie Schumacher was my favourite driver for many years. I started to hate him when he came back to F1... some kind of mistake which we, the mortals cannot understand, maybe he was driver by some other factor or.. lack of money (why not, who will retire 7 WC, driving Ferrari and come back to a crappy crap just to be in best case 4th-5th... my opinion).
    At least his driving talent is genuine, can't ignore that.
     
  20. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    My wife and I saw the Senna movie on Wednesday. Both enjoyed it. Great stuff.
    Yes Schumacher is a good driver. I think he also missed racing (got into bikes for a while) and I think he is on US$20m p.a. so he can combine business with pleasure.
    Despite my dislike of him I don't see his comeback as a failure. Where the first 4 places will normally be filled by Red Bull and Mclaren due to car speed, the guys who get 5th-7th are doing ok. He is starting to be more competitive. Still Dick Dastardly though.