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Featured Eric Boullier questions Red Bull radio transmissions

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Jordan Wilkins, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. _89P8968.jpg

    McLaren racing director Eric Boullier has questioned some of the Red Bull radio transmissions made to Australian Daniel Ricciardo in yesterday Singapore Grand Prix. In the two week break between the Italian and Singapore Grand Prix's the FIA dramatically announced a clampdown on team to driver communications which were deemed to be helping the drivers during the race.

    Some of the restrictions on teams being able to help drivers with settings on the car and such were deemed legal again in the run up to the Grand Prix weekend, however the increasingly frequent messages this year from the pit wall to drivers coaching them during the race remain banned.

    The message in question from Red Bull to Ricciardo advised him to help with a battery problem "avoiding exit kerbs may help the problem with the car". One team that took exception was McLaren with Boullier noting to Press Association Sport "We had no issues (with the new radio rules) on our side, It just made us more busy listening to others to make sure they made no mistakes, like Red Bull twice with Ricciardo. I think it was coded, but it is up to the FIA to investigate. It is not for me to investigate. "

    Red Bull quickly dampened the impact of this however by posting via their Twitter page "The FIA has confirmed to the Team that it's satisfied the messages were related to car reliability concerns, so no coded messages." This is clearly the first flash point of many coming over radio communications although it seems Red Bull has got away with this one. What are your thoughts on their radio transmission's yesterday or the new rules in general?
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2014
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  2. Queequeg

    Premium Member

    I think it will never be possible to rule out the possibility of teams using codes for these radio messages completely.
    However, the new regulation might still achieve what it set out to do - reduce the extent to which engineers can drive the car through the driver's ears and protect drivers from a constant stream of coaching, nagging and knowing-better chit-chat from the engineers.
  3. kelaroost

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    The hole idea banning communication is stupid and pointless.
    Whats next huh rally co drivers not giving instructions to there driver or trainers in ring corner not shouting advice to there boxer.

    Banning any typ of communication makes little sense except between the drivers.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. It's a stupid policy.
    F1 has changed dramatically.
    The cars are now way more complex than even a year ago.
    Before you can ban all driver coaching radio communications, you'd have to go back to the days when it was just the driver and his car....no MGUs, no ERS, no energy harvesting etc...
    These guys need classes just to study what the buttons on the steering wheel do.
    There's anti-stall, ECU reset, clutch bite settings, and this is just a few. The list is huge.
    Personally, I think it creates way too many distractions. It should be about all out driving.
    I can certainly understand wanting to be more conservative with resources but not to the point where the racing is no longer that.
    Every week now, there's some new silly rule being introduced.
    Bernie and his boys are doing and trying everything to get viewership up....except the one thing they know they should....lowering ticket cost.
    It'll be very interesting to see how young Verstappen get his head around this next year.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
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  5. Whats next, they can't use the drink system anymore? Or even better, let's remove helmets!
  6. Andrew Scott

    Andrew Scott
    Premium Member

    Personally I think F1 has only itself to blame for where it is today, they have been so busy with how to make rules and profits, they've lost sight of the basics of the sport, man and machine Vs man and machine Vs track and conditions. This is what it's about if Im not mistaken, all the techno crap that has crept into F1 and other forms of motor racing over the years has made the sport way too expensive, hence Ferrari spend millions just on R&D as do most the top f1 makers.
    I don't agree with all the radio chat and or coaching during races, it should be driver and machine with no outside influences. If the team has done there preparation properly for the season then there car should be ready for that season, I realise that this is the first season with the new car regs and bugs and issues will arise. But maybe the FAI should of given the teams another year to get these new hybrid cars sorted properly, before commencing the season with them.
    I dont think this years F1 is very fair or balanced due to the new cars, and I can see Mercedes romping both the championship and constructors championship home in a breeze, but from my point of view the whole F1 game is a joke now, lets get back to basics, and ban radio coaching/communication completely and let the drivers race the race not the crew.

    • Like Like x 1
  7. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    Maybe a banning of pit to car radio all together and a return to pit boards, and a return to cars which are not reliant on 10000x driver inputs whilst driving to maintain a reliable and safe working environment, not only making the cars more reliable, safer and cheaper to operate as they will not be pushing the boundary of safety every lap with the systems ?

    Next year should see the further reduction of front wing width to lessen the instances of cut tyres and clumsy drivers, and I hope we see the same power to grip ratio next year as well, the driver inputs are much more exciting to watch this season.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. F1 of old still required the driver to manage some things.
    The difference however, is that they managed things for efficiency and always had an option if things went sour. It was almost always done at the driver's maximum potential.
    Today's driver has to manage thing and has no options.
  9. Andrew Scott

    Andrew Scott
    Premium Member

    @Terry Rock, I agree, but what the cars of old had has continued to be part of cars today, and in days of old most of it, including race strategy, was done in the garage, drivers were limited to only brake bias, turbo boost and arb adjusts, also cars had analogue dashes full of gauges. Sure they became more complicated through the 90's with the addition of computer tech, but still remained fairly low tech.

    But today's cars have multi-display digital dashes that tell you everything you can want to know about the car, no need for real driver car knowledge, skill or intuition, actually you can't really call them driver's in F1 today, the cars are as complicated and expensive in their own way as fighter jets, so might as well call them F1 pilots, trouble here is, even a combat pilot is left to get on with the mission at hand, without being coached on how to get it done. Sure communication is a must, but were do you draw the line when it gets to what is considered technical advantage by way of coaching or being warned of a pending issue with the car, or told to run to a number to lower fuel burn, just let them get on with it, if they run out of fuel or suffer a battery issue from running exit curbs then so-be-it that's motor-racing.

    F1 was once about the drivers/pilots not the machinery, it's become a technical money pit, it's as if F1 has evolved into a competition of who can design the most advanced system of power development & delivery, sure the techi stuff is amazing, and the teams need to look after their million dollar machines and investments, which is why coaching started in the 1st place I would guess, but what about the drivers, their the ones that truly make F1 cars exiting.

    The top teams have spent millions building their cars and systems and invested millions more into R&D (all due to the FAI changing regs), yet if we put the same drivers into basic v8 powered not so technical F1 cars and let them race without interferences we would all get the same enjoyment from it, if not more, and it would be at half the cost, which hopefully would allow more people to go trackside to enjoy it, and still allow the FAI to rake it in. (Does Bernie read this forum by chance :p)

    Just an old guys opinion.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
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  10. What ever happened to watching gentlemen or ladies with big nuts racing the fastest cars money can build?
    I would love to see a few seasons with no rules other than fuel consumption limit, do what you want and see what happens :D
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Tom

    Staff Emeritus Staff

    Next up: "SKRILLEX, SEB! SKRILLEX!" - code for "the car sounds like a lawnmower, it'll blow up any second now".
    • Haha Haha x 5
  12. I couldn't agree more , however.

    F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport both in speed and technology (F1 technology filtering down into road cars (Macca P1, Laferrari along with many more mainstream vehicles).
    If we were to ban a lot of the tech on these cars I'm sure F1's ratings would rocket and the races would be a lot better to watch (and mix up the current driver rankings I'm sure) but would it really then be the pinnacle of motorsport?.

    I like the new rule regarding pit messages, and anything that makes the drivers work harder to manage their race is good to me but going back to old school racing and the subsequent technology (or lack of it) although fun would remove the essence of what F1 is purported to be in my opinion.
    Also it may (dependent on rule restrictions) make F1 slower than other formula's (GP2 is not a long way off already).

    As i say i agree with your post in essence i can just understand why the formula has gone the way it has.


    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. LOL...Some driver wouldn't finish a race if they had no coms
  14. Queequeg

    Premium Member

    Gotta agree here. Banning tech to get more pure racing is not what F1 is about. If you only care about man and machine vs track in lower tech cars, there is plenty GP2, F3 etc. to watch.
    F1 is, however at the forefront of high-end technology and it always has been. Don't tell me it hasn't because ever since it came about in the 1950s it has been about building a car that can drive circles around the competition while still being reliable enough (Lotus 25, 49, 79, the McLarens from the 80s and late 90s, Williams FW14, Ferrari 2001-2004) all these famous, beloved cars have one thing in common: They could beat the snot out of the competition on a technical level alone with equal drivers. It was NOT fair from a driver's standpoint. Although some of these cars were driven by truly genius drivers who could also have won with lesser cars, F1 has always been about getting the money in, getting the research and engineering done at least as much as about getting a good driver.
    I can understand people not liking the commercial practices of F1 that make actually going to a race a bit dull, and that might have been better in the past (I am too young to know), but the technical aspect in F1 has always been huge.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
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  15. I would love nothing more than for the driver to be 'alone' and make all decisions about running the car from the cockpit.
    Unfortunately with these cars, it's no longer possible.
    Look at the issue Lewis had at Monza.
    That's a classic example of how over the top even something like a start routine has become.
    Did you hear him describe exactly what is done on the lap prior to start with these new cars?
    The thing goes through bite-point and anti-stall checks...then does a full reset prior to launch.
    If it doesn't complete the test, the driver is at the mercy of whatever is left using the hand clutch...if the car will even move.
    These cars are starting to rival the business jets I fix in terms of complexity.
    There, I push one button to do a brake-by-wire BITE check and the Brake ECU does the rest throughout the flight and landing.
    These guys with their heavy fuel restrictions have to conserve and constantly change setting on the steering wheel for the most optimal harvesting.
    Can you imagine what it's like to switch teams and have to learn what each dial does as it's primary function....not to mention the 'hidden' menus and button push combinations?
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
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  16. agree 100% w/ gabriel, as a (very) new F1 fan, ive never understood the arguments about imbalance being a problem. F1 has been about the cars just as much as the drivers; there are cars such as the above & more that are revered almost as much. and most of those cars were so good they were literally unfair.

    i think this year (started tuning in a few races ago, only read a report here or there before that) has been spectacular entertainment, every race has been its own drama in some respect. maybe F1 does change too much, is too finicky, which is a stark contrast to most any other sport, but the bottom line is its been great racing this year. and i have a feeling the sport has withered these complaints about technology creep & safety regulations, etc, since the 70s.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    If you want to look at a more successful solution look at GP2 imho, those cars are just as exciting without all the BS, and the look and sound better to boot.....
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Robert vd Heide

    Robert vd Heide
    Piloting RC Helicopters and sim Racecars

    all leagues are changing
    think of the Dakar rally ,that was an adventure in the wilderness for a few weeks.

    these days they can connect with the outside world after each stage,internet,mobile Phone.

    i guess the past is gone ,the now is now ,and the future will be
    and all we can really do is accept the old has gone

    even though the past was better ;) spoken like a true old man.
  19. Tom

    Staff Emeritus Staff

    "Pastor, please come in!"
    "SI PATRON!?"
    "Pastor, the walls are not your friends. Do you copy?"
    "BUT WHY!?"
    • Haha Haha x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. Andrew Scott

    Andrew Scott
    Premium Member

    Guys, I have nothing against technology in motorsport, it has made some amazing breakthroughs over the years in fuel efficiency, ABS braking, sequential gearboxes etc etc the list goes on. But there's a point when to much tech gets in the way of what the sport is in essence, sure the fastest cars have always been part of the F1 badge, but the tech was a by product of trying to get that little bit more grunt than your competitor, and yes F1 is the pinnacle of the road racing fraternity, but without a driver their just expensive pieces of stationary machinery, no matter if they were built in the 60's or 2014.

    Besides, I thought prototypes were where most of the R&D was done for commercial purposes, and of the tech developed in F1 only about 20% will actually filter into street cars. Also the Hybrid tech is not new, it's just new to F1 and LMP1 classes, it's not used in other classes because it would make them unaffordable.

    One thing to consider though is that if there wasn't so much tech, there would be less to go wrong, and with less going wrong then there is less reason for the crew and engineer to talk to the driver with coded messages or technical advantage hints blah blah blah. And the other positive to a less technical F1 is the driver will have more time to concentrate on what he is paid to do, race the fastest race cars in the world, because you don't need the most advance tech to go fast.