Equal gearboxes and steering wheels during online play

[Slawomir Judek]

Hi. Does anybody know if AC will have something, I don't know an application, a file, whatever, controling what gearbox and steering wheel drivers use on a server? Maybe some restrictions that only people with this steering wheel or this can enter a server, with this type of gearbox and this. Also I think that controling in-game steering lock and profiler degrees of rotation will be a good idea. Is it possible at all? I heard that LFS has something similar. Is it true?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I never said they should be made easy, it's just that making it more difficult doesnt make it more realistic. If you're having to work harder on the wheel and pedals than you would in real life, just because you cant feel g forces, that doesnt make it very real at all either. There is an argument from both sides, and I dont want it to be easy, I just want it to be immersive and have real life characteristics.

Edited; oops

But think about it.

Reality
Game that is 100% real (for the sake of argument)

One of them you have G-forces, the other you have a wheel telling you what is going on.

Which one will be easier do you think?

Sims will always be harder to drive then real life because there´s no G-forces.
Sim developers don´t actively try to make sims hard, that´s a stupid assessment and makes no sense in the world.

 

[XN-Sigma]

Something people around sim games seem to forget is that in the end of the day you are still inside your comfortable home, in front of a PC, looking at a flat screen, and this is as far from a real race as it can get.

To me, the only parts that must be close to reality in a racing game are the physics, graphics and sound, all the rest can go whatever way as long as it's FUN.
About this, I've been seeing some quite crazy comments about AC around the internet by some simnatics, stuff like people angry that AC will have a chaseview camera, or suggesting gamepads to be banned from AC, etc.
I remember some people disregarding the drift mode from AC as something useless or unwanted, even though they never tried it or thought it wasn't "real racing", but I'll certainly enjoy it because, by the looks, it seems really fun to me, there was a similar situation with pCARS earlier this year, many people thought road courses should stay away from the game because "a racing game should only have racing tracks" and things like that, the 2 road courses that were released for pCARS are by far the most challenging "tracks" in the game, and really fun to drive in.

I'm kinda rumbling, but my point is, people should be less obsessed with absolute realism and care more about the fun side of things.

 

[Dinca Andrei]

Agree,as long as its a choise to set your game as you want,there will be no problem.This way everyone is happy
Side note, i realy dont like road courses to be part of a calendar in a championship,but for the fun and good time,it is recommended such tracks.

 

[Slawomir Judek]

I think you forgot about the most important factor in all simracing games - the tyres. Of course it always be only numbers in a file but this is the most important thing in every racing game. Now it's not good. Let's hope one of these two games (rfactor 2 or Assetto Corsa) or both will have decent tyre model. And of course real road feature. Very important. Simulator should simulate as close to reality as possible. Compare DCS Black Shark 2 or A10 simulators. Different area but this is a good simulator. It's all about the choice. Everyone can be happy with what he wants from the game. I just hope that developers will think about all the drivers. That's all what I want.

 

[Nathan Robinson]

But think about it.

Reality
Game that is 100% real (for the sake of argument)

One of them you have G-forces, the other you have a wheel telling you what is going on.

Which one will be easier do you think?

Sims will always be harder to drive then real life because there´s no G-forces.
Sim developers don´t actively try to make sims hard, that´s a stupid assessment and makes no sense in the world.

I dont think "stupid" is needed. Who died and made you the expert? No one. I never said developers purposely made it hard, you misunderstand, I said hardcore simnuts would rather drive something that is more difficult than easy. You should really get down off this high horse your on, you are no better than me. At least I try to be respectful.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I dont think "stupid" is needed. Who died and made you the expert? No one. I never said developers purposely made it hard, you misunderstand, I said hardcore simnuts would rather drive something that is more difficult than easy. You should really get down off this high horse your on, you are no better than me. At least I try to be respectful.

I never said you were stupid. I said the argument was stupid. Big difference.
How can you take that and translate that into thinking i think i´m better then you?
...

"I said hardcore simnuts would rather drive something that is more difficult than easy."

And this is based on what?

 

[Requiem84]

To Slawomir; on the previous page you mention that about 20 simracers in the whole world problaby need this realism-check feature.

If you stare this, how can you expect Kunos Simulazioni to develop this feature? There are many other pressing features that a lot (more than 20!) people want. These features, like pitstops, dynamic racing line, variable weather etc etc, determine if AC will be a succes.

The feature you want, is a niche feature. Like Full mode in NKP was. Kunos took a lot of time to develop it, but in the end maybe 1% of the cliënts used it.

To me, it looks a bit selfish to be so adamant in your request. I think it would be better if a modteam develops this feature for league racing.

 

[Slawomir Judek]

Well, frankly speaking it doesn't metter who will develop this feature. I didn't tell only 20 drivers need this feature. It was more about that in a league there is about 20 drivers or so. And yes it's a niche feature but I think it's important. Also all features you mentioned: pitstops, dynamic racing line variable wahter are very important. But in my opinion, the features I'm talking about is also important to me and for drivers who like difficult games. That's all.

 

[Juise]

There will always be people without clutch pedals and shifters (ie. cheaper hw) but for them to be "equal" in league racing there need to be some sort of system where the game send info of the used controls to the server to register.
Also for those who drive a car with stick shift in real life should have the same and infact a bit bigger "delay" when using paddles instead of shifter while playing.
And when using shifter it would be stupid not to need clutch where you need it in real life.. You can shift gears without clutch in all cars but it needs correct revs and not too much torque while doing so and if not you'll wear the gearbox mechanics and eventually break it.

All this means that when a league is racing ie. the lotus 98T there will be those who drive with paddles. And also those who drive with shifter and clutch heel toeing in the downshifts.

We would need to get these people to somewhat same level while racing.

First of all ultimately fastest way to drive is paddles so we need to implement a delay. After that it will be faster to drive with stick but without clutch and for this we need some kind of delay or at least harsh damage system too. After this the fastest way is to drive with shifter and clutch but thats also a LOT harder and you tend to make more mistakes and drive more inconsistently.

So now we all with different systems would be pretty much equal depending on our preferred way of racing. So what should these delays be and how about mechanical damages?

I would think that there could be simple adjustable delays for all different change methods depending on what kind of info the client sends to the server about the controllers used.
And the mechanical damages linked to these systems in some evil way

This system has been always a VERY big thing in league racing. If you don't have delays for paddle "cheaters" then you just drive with them and after that it's pretty much same what you drive as half of the car behavior is lost as it's too easy to drive.

This adjustable delay would eliminate the huge debate of it being wrong and all the leagues could decide it for them selves.

Also a thing that rF1 missed was that when the gearshift delay is applied it needs to be from the beginning of the shift (when the gear shows N between shifts) not like in rF1 when the delay counter started after you had the next gear selected as it was impossible to drive..

So what do you think?

 

[Ian Strom]

You also need to keep in mind mixed cars imo. Some people might want to run cars with paddle and stick in the same race. Or cars with different steering wheel rotation. But I suspect that would only become more important as lots of different mods start getting released.

 

[Juise]

You also need to keep in mind mixed cars imo. Some people might want to run cars with paddle and stick in the same race. Or cars with different steering wheel rotation. But I suspect that would only become more important as lots of different mods start getting released.

Of course the shifter etc. flags would be car dependable.
Steering ratios are more driver dependable irl also so you should not need to force them to be something specific.

 

[Damien Wintz]

Steering ratios are more driver dependable irl also so you should not need to force them to be something specific.

Not on production cars.

 

[Juise]

Not on production cars.

That is true.
Maybe a system that works through the controller selection screen. If you plug in a wheel that has 360 or 270degrees the game limits the ratios so these wheels are usable too. Otherwise it could be car dependant as it's now in rF2 too. You set your wheels maximum ratio from windows and the game chooses the correct degrees for the car in hand.

 

[Ryan Vickery]

iRacing already does this, you set the wheel at 900 and then it will set the wheel to the car, for example the Formula 1 car I think is at 400. Rather than having anything to do with fair racing I think it's simply a convenience to have all the cars feeling good out of the box.

Though if people want to spin the wheel around 4 times, or if people want the whole steering range within 200 degrees shouldn't really matter, it's not like there is some unfair advantage taking place here, or everyone would be using gamepads

Which gets me to a point, some players are good enough with gamepads to compete with the very best wheel users.