Driving Realism of AC vs iRacing:

I’ve been spending more time with AC as I wait for Project Cars to release. The other reason is because I bought myself a Fanatec Clubsport pedal set. I am really digging AC for a host of reasons, including the driving models and the feel of the cars on the road. (AkA, Realism).

Currently iRacing has discounted deals of 50% on all its membership packages. I started filling out the online form for membership when it hit me… Assoetta is pretty freaking good; and hummm… is AC as good as iRacing.

So, this is my question. Is AC as realistic as iRacing says it is? Are any of you using both and can you comment on the driving realism with both?
 
I agree with everything here, prefer iRacing but play more AC - strange. The iRacing cars are hard to drive but not much harder than AC. One thing not really touched on yet is iRacing has superior support for buttonboxes, extra dashes, telemetry etc. The motion stuff is more accurate. AC is so far behind when it comes to motion asw well as fake motion stuff like buttkickers.
 
I agree with everything here, prefer iRacing but play more AC - strange. The iRacing cars are hard to drive but not much harder than AC. One thing not really touched on yet is iRacing has superior support for buttonboxes, extra dashes, telemetry etc. The motion stuff is more accurate. AC is so far behind when it comes to motion asw well as fake motion stuff like buttkickers.

Can I ask you why you mean the buttkickers are fake?
 
Can I ask you why you mean the buttkickers are fake?
Ah sorry. Bit misleading. I don't mean to say the buttkickers are fake. What I mean is buttkickers provide fake motion. You can still feel the bumps but you're not really pulling any g's. Contrast this with a full motion platform that moves to simulate g's. That's real motion.

Just my poor choice of words. Buttkickers and tactile inducers in general are great (with SimVibe). I use them because I can't afford a full motion platform and I enjoy them too.

...Also with your previous post on iRacing and more to lose. I agree with that too. It's dishearting getting in a low SOF race, even if you're on pole and making a single mistake or getting rammed by someone and then not finishing the race and losing 100 iRating -- when the gain is only 20 to 30 per race in my case when I do well in a low SOF. Running in league races helps this a bit because iRating isn't impacted. But yes, it's just less frustrating playing AC :)
 
I think that the tyre models in sims are good, but there's a big problem in sims. On every car the suspension geometry and stiffness changes throughout the travel, yet this is estimated. These changes make the biggest difference to how real cars handle, after weight distribution, yet it's all estimated!

Also sim driving is different to real driving, as you can't feel anything other than the FFB, and FFB wheels typically have many problems. Perhaps the physics would still feel a bit wrong in a sim, even if it they were perfect?!

Also if you've not driven the car you're driving in a sim, in real life on the same track, you don't know how accurate any sim is. You can only compare it to cars you've driven, and all road cars are different to each other, and massively different to racing cars (I know it's obvious, but I think we forget this sometimes).
I think the AC physics are better than GT6/Forza 4, but I have not tried any other PC sims yet.
 
I think that the tyre models in sims are good, but there's a big problem in sims. On every car the suspension geometry and stiffness changes throughout the travel, yet this is estimated. These changes make the biggest difference to how real cars handle, after weight distribution, yet it's all estimated!
I don't know if I agree, the suspension geometry doesn't mean anything if the contact patch isn't being simulated correctly, and in most sims there are pretty noticeable flaws in both. Sure you can point out a long list of tire features (heating, load sensitivity, wearing, flat spots, grain, blister) but some of the basic numbers like the amount of grip available at high slip angles or various camber are just not known - in the real world nobody is measuring them, they just pick a rubber compound that fits their performance criteria (good in -10C, good on wet roads, good for up to 200km/h, whatever)

Relative to the tire, if you're not accurately simulating camber effects in the first place then suspension geometry means nothing. If the tire's flex (and it is the first point of smoothing out bumps in the road) is not the right springiness, then the stiffness of the suspension means nothing.
 
While I don't care about iRacing that much, it has to be said that every other simulator feels more alive than AC.
if youre not talking about how the cars actually feel & drive, id be inclined to agree. but thats a pretty huge part of it & AC gets it about as right as anyone...iracing...idk. attn to detail of tracks & cars is crazy & makes me REALLY want to love it. superior sounds to AC, too. but the actual driving doesnt feel anywhere close to other major sims to me...im hoping the next update is encouraging.
 
I don't know if I agree, the suspension geometry doesn't mean anything if the contact patch isn't being simulated correctly, and in most sims there are pretty noticeable flaws in both. Sure you can point out a long list of tire features (heating, load sensitivity, wearing, flat spots, grain, blister) but some of the basic numbers like the amount of grip available at high slip angles or various camber are just not known - in the real world nobody is measuring them, they just pick a rubber compound that fits their performance criteria (good in -10C, good on wet roads, good for up to 200km/h, whatever)

Relative to the tire, if you're not accurately simulating camber effects in the first place then suspension geometry means nothing. If the tire's flex (and it is the first point of smoothing out bumps in the road) is not the right springiness, then the stiffness of the suspension means nothing.

For years it's been easy to get the data for any situation any tyre may encounter:
It just costs a lot of money. I've not played Forza 5, but Turn 10 worked with Calspan to get more accurate data that was more relevant, rather than using the inferior Pirelli tyre data used for Forza 4.
Also if you look here:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/mclaren-p1-in-forza-motorsport-5-2013-12-12
Turn 10 claim that they measured every relevant part of the cars in the game, to get the suspension right. I really doubt that as it would take too long and be too expensive. Also why would people still say it was still un-realistic next to PC sims?

Look at the effort developers are putting into modern 3d tyre models:
http://www.virtualr.net/inside-project-cars-seta-tire-model
Yet people say 'Project Cars' isn't realistic, why?! Either the tyre data they are using is in-accurate and/or the suspension geometry isn't accurate. Personally I think they're just simplifying the physics, so it's easier to play?

Modern tyres are really hard to drive at 10/10, and I think we forget that we aren't all Danniel Ricciardo! If we can't all drive a real car at 10/10, do we *really* want a 100% accurate simulation of racing cars? Especially when we can't feel anything, other than a bit of fake torque through the steering wheel?
 
I want to bring up this hidden point that you can only find within details. The way drivers move their wheel within iRacing and AC is slightly different.

Let's examine. Within iRacing you will see rather everybody being silky smooth. I'm not saying this is bad, but even rather new drivers are forced to accept this driving style. Personally, I strive to being as smooth as possible, but let's look at it further. In iRacing drivers turn in to certain degree, then hold the wheel steady there for determined amount of time before they start unwinding the wheel. Nothing wrong with holding a wheel a little bit you would think. But there is.

For most part if you are spectating real life footage, you will see drivers make small corrections all the time. I mean, if you are using real life rotation wheel circle, this is just inside 1cm wheel movement correction while they are still cornering towards the entry, around apex or within corner exit. That is how you will drive a car in real life without powersteering too and in AC, all the while you strive for smoother ride.

However, even though you can see and perhaps do certain small number of corrections inside operating an iR car, this is significantly lower then with AC. There can be two reasons for this. Either the tire model is not flexible enough, or simply put FFB is lacking this vital info via tension to immerse the driver to the latest details of its model.

I've tested iRacing for couple of months and those are my conclusions. I stand by those. Because the evidence shows from anyones video in any car that car behavior is exactly like that, which I experienced with those free cars. Therefor it has nothing to do with certain car, rather with the system it has been molded in. So, this being the core of any simulation it is preventing you from being totally immersed. And you end up feeling as if you are floating or howering over the track in iR. This means that you need to rather use tricks and learned behavior then your talent to race. Knowing all that and having had experienced it, no matter how good the iR MP is, this is always in ones way and as long as there is events and competition AC will woop it's ass on daily where almost anyone I have talked to had said, you feel as if you are on the track.
yes AC track object is not the best one, on that part iRacing win

on the smoothness, just find out you need to be really smooth with the unwinding along with a smooth throttle increase, don't know if it's realistic enough. somethings lithe that


on the 3 min mark

That being said, AC is more addictive, I can turn laps after laps, while iRacing I get frusrated pretty fast. I guess the best is iRacing + AC physics, AC FF, AC Addons. Simply I just like iRacing laser scan car/track and race organization

EDIT: maybe it's related to my skill, but in AC I can wheel the car like in a incar you tube video, where in iRacing I have to cradle it like eggs or a baby, that take out off the fun factor even I have been a member of iRacing since the beginning with all contents and A license. if AC wind pickup and there is oval stuff, I don't think I will renew the iRacing subscription even though I have paid upfront till 2017.
 
Forza guys might have the greatest data on earth but their goal is to make a fun game first and foremost and they will tailor the experience and physics towards that.
I don't know if anyone here remembers the first Forza demo that came out, it was really great and blew me away. They got a ton of criticism (whining) about it being too difficult and despite their stance that they would not dumb down and simplify their game, the final release drove nothing like the original. It was a lot of fun, but much more of a simcade game, widely praised this time around.
I haven't kept up with all the Forza releases since the second one, but they clearly cater to a different audience than proper sim racers. Sims are not supposed to be easily accessible or fun from the get-go, but that makes the eventual success that much more rewarding and at least somewhat applicable to real life.
 
Forza guys might have the greatest data on earth but their goal is to make a fun game first and foremost and they will tailor the experience and physics towards that.
I don't know if anyone here remembers the first Forza demo that came out, it was really great and blew me away. They got a ton of criticism (whining) about it being too difficult and despite their stance that they would not dumb down and simplify their game, the final release drove nothing like the original. It was a lot of fun, but much more of a simcade game, widely praised this time around.
I haven't kept up with all the Forza releases since the second one, but they clearly cater to a different audience than proper sim racers. Sims are not supposed to be easily accessible or fun from the get-go, but that makes the eventual success that much more rewarding and at least somewhat applicable to real life.
I don't understand why games like forza, gt, grid, f1 20xx need to have simplified physics and tyre model...
Having those arcade or simcade physics doesn't make the game easier. It just makes you try to learn the tricks of games instead of doing naturally what a car would do and how it would react to your input. I constantly see people in those games driving badly, taking bad lines, cutting corners, bumping walls and other cars.. so from directly observing that behavior we can say the arcade physics doesn't really help the driving more. They also just play with a gamepad so there could be that as well..

For example sim racing games, complexly simulate game physics, tyre model, car specific physics, and you can drive better these cars than the cars in those arcade games. They also simulate traction control, stability, abs etc.. and it just gets even easier. At least easier/safer to drive, is still hard to be competitive. But is easier to drive because the physics simulate with a high level of accuracy what happens in real life. If you don't simulate what happens in real life, then you are driving against the natural behavior of what you know from real life.
 
I constantly see people in those games driving badly, taking bad lines, cutting corners, bumping walls and other cars.. so from directly observing that behavior we can say the arcade physics doesn't really help the driving more.
The point is the simplified physics means that you can do all those bad habits and still be fast... whereas in 'realistic' games one bump usually makes you uncompetitive, and if you miss the racing line you lose seconds to everyone else.
 
I can only give you my opinion based on a Months play on both.
I prefer Assetto Corsa for one huge reason. iRacing, in my opinion, is far too expensive. Buying a membership subscription, with few cars and tracks, having to continue paying every few months. Having to shell out for extra cars and tracks, it's just too expensive for me I'm afraid.
Just look at the new pack being released for assetto corsa. 10 cars and a laser scanned Norschelffe ( excuse my spelling ) circuit, in 3 configurations.
Wonderful value for money!
 
I played iRacing religiously from 2008-2012.

Recently I tried it again. Their physics improved somewhat, tiremodel is better than before, but still not close to AC. Nor is it's ffb.

Butttt, i just keep playing it for the FANTASTIC multiplayer experience. Big shame AC will never offer that. :(
 
yes AC track object is not the best one, on that part iRacing win

on the smoothness, just find out you need to be really smooth with the unwinding along with a smooth throttle increase, don't know if it's realistic enough. somethings lithe that


on the 3 min mark

That being said, AC is more addictive, I can turn laps after laps, while iRacing I get frusrated pretty fast. I guess the best is iRacing + AC physics, AC FF, AC Addons. Simply I just like iRacing laser scan car/track and race organization

EDIT: maybe it's related to my skill, but in AC I can wheel the car like in a incar you tube video, where in iRacing I have to cradle it like eggs or a baby, that take out off the fun factor even I have been a member of iRacing since the beginning with all contents and A license. if AC wind pickup and there is oval stuff, I don't think I will renew the iRacing subscription even though I have paid upfront till 2017.


This video only prove that guy doesn know what he talking about!if you have oversteer you how to steer in slide direction!WTFFFFFFF???I think you should countersteer instead of steer in same direction of the slide which will means that you will only increase the slip angle!BS
 

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