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Does the demo give an accurate representation of the final game? Especially the FFB.

Discussion in 'rFactor 2' started by Coffer, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. Coffer

    Coffer

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    I'm trying it now to see if I would like the full game and right now I'm really struggling with it. Compared to other games, even AMS which I felt was strongly lacking in areas such as wheelspin and lockups, the FFB in the rF2 demo feels painfully dull and giving me very little information. There's no weight in the steering whatsoever, no matter the speed at which I'm driving, there's still very little feeling under acceleration out of corners or under heavy braking (thus making it very difficult to detect lockups), and worst of all, the FFB literally doesn't seem to do anything whatsoever if I go over a kerb. The feeling of the track also feels off, so much so that it feels like I'm on ice far more often than I would like. After a bit more testing, the cars generally also feel like they have no weight whatsoever. What am I missing? Is there anything I need to change?

    This is with the G27, with the default settings and no assists.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  2. William Wester

    William Wester
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    I'm no help on the settings for a Logitech, I'm using a Thrustmaster TX. To me, I much prefer the FFB in rF2 over AC, or anything else for that matter. Hope you can get your wheel dialed-in, rF2 has a lot to offer. Many of the features and nuances that make rF2 a very good sim may take a little time to uncover - give it enough time.
     
  3. Coffer

    Coffer

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    Yeah, to me so far it's the exact opposite, with AC giving me far more information than anything I've tried getting out of this so far, but I don't know if this is because of the demo being outdated, the in-game settings being wrong or something else.
     
  4. Alistair McKinley

    Alistair McKinley
    Premium

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    What have you done so far? (Logitech Profiler? Ingame settings?)
    I've just bought the game - also using a G27 - and it feels amazing with default settings.
    I created a Profile in the Logitech Profiler:
    - FFB strength at 100%, 0% spring, 0% damper
    - 900°
    - no centre force
    - allow the game to overwrite settings

    Ingame:
    - default settings (no changes yet)
    - also no assists
    - using clutch + h-pattern
    - 900° (seems to auto-adjust for each car)

    Ingame I just let the game recognise my G27. Nothing more. Went on track with the Corvette and the NSX so far. Absolutely amazing how this (older) game feels.
    I don't experience any of the issues you do.

    Edit: I also own AC, R3E, AMS, pCars and the FFB I get here (rFactor 2) out of the box is fabulous. I really like AC's and AMS's FFB but rFactor2's FBB is just a little bit better (a bit more detailed, a bit smoother outputs). But these are just my first impressions.
     
  5. Coffer

    Coffer

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    Identical settings to yours.

    Mind you, I'm doing this in the demo (Megane Trophy at Toban), as I'm not keen on wasting money on something I might not like in the end, and simracing titles absolutely need way more than 2 hours to test out properly. There's a big chance that the build being older might influence things quite a lot, hence the question in the title since I very obviously want to figure out if I'd enjoy this.

    To me, it feels excessively dull right now, almost as if I'm on ice. If there's anything it even remotely compares to right now, it's Dirt 4, and that game has terrible FFB. Barring that, this is the first time I've ever had a worse experience with a sim's FFB than with that of AMS, which I've given up on due to how bad it feels under braking.
     
  6. Alistair McKinley

    Alistair McKinley
    Premium

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    Please don't think that I don't know what I'm doing.
    I know that you are trying the demo.
    I just wanted to share my first experiences with you - because our experiences differ.

    I've been playing simulation games for quite some time now.
    And I know when FFB feels right.
    On my end here, rFactor 2 feels nothing compared to Dirt 4. (Yeah, I also own Dirt 4 - among Dirt Rally and SLRE). It feels even (a little bit) better than AC (782 hrs played) and AMS (152 hrs played) which I've always considered the best games/sims regarding FFB.

    Please also note: English is not my mother tongue.
     
  7. William Wester

    William Wester
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    Dup...deleted.
     
  8. William Wester

    William Wester
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    @Coffer, I too have been sim racing for many years, and own every racing sim/game available. If you are comparing the rF2 feel to Dirt 4 then something is definitely wrong on your end. It's not just my opinion, rF2 has been around quite a while and it's always been known for great physics and FFB. It wouldn't be the sim of choice for many serious racing leagues and competitions if it was sub-par. In my opinion, the demo shouldn't have used the Civic as I think that is one car where the FFB feels strange (again, to me), I'm not a fan of FWD though.
    But, if you don't like it, then best to move on. If you are a serious sim racer, rF2 is dirt cheap during the Steam sale so you can't go wrong in my opinion. In addition, Studio 397 is aggressively improving the sim every day.
     
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  9. Kenny Paton

    Kenny Paton
    Staff Premium

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    I always thought the demo gave a very poor impression of the game.
     
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  10. Coffer

    Coffer

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    "Even remotely" just means it's the only one that's even close to having the issues that I'm experiencing so far. It's hardly a comparison.

    I know that quite well. The fact that I'm not seeing it so far is why I've made the thread, since I'm curious as to why this is happening when everyone's experience is so different with the same settings. Have you tried the demo to see how it fares compared to the full game?
     
  11. Kristian Maynes

    Kristian Maynes

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    rF2 is constantly updating, I usually play AC and bought rF2 coz of the sale. Its cheap for a $10(in my country) sim game with lots of free content. Only gripe is the graphics, ill just let the dx11 mature then im gonna try it full time. Its on my steam wishlist for the longest time and played the demo for more than 10 hours, just waited for the sale to buy the game.

    Buy it, its already cheap on sale.
     
  12. Coffer

    Coffer

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    Given my current salary and the average pay in my country, 14.99 euros is not exactly cheap.
     
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  13. Coffer

    Coffer

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    Quick update: the FR3.5 cars are even worse in that sense. The bumpiness is really well done, but there's no feeling of resistance when turning at high speed, just a dull, constant feeling of dead weight. There's also no response from the FFB when losing rear traction, and that's after comparing it over several laps in the same two cars (the Megane from earlier and the FR3.5) in the same corner with varying levels of throttle input - every time I got the exact same response from the wheel, with no differences whatsoever.

    Given that the demo has primarily negative reviews, I'm very tempted to say this is just the demo being as it is. Is the main game supposed to feel like this as well? I'm very much assuming it's a lot better, but it's worth asking. Did the FFB go through any changes since the build that the demo is supposed to be based on?
     
  14. Kristian Maynes

    Kristian Maynes

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    Put the game on your wishlist, thats what i did. I planned on buying the game last steam sale and didn't bought it. I played the demo then waited for another steam sale to buy the game. I'll just wait for it to be complete before making it as my main sim game, just like what happened to AC, keeps getting better.

    Btw, what other sim game you own based on your comparison?
     
  15. Coffer

    Coffer

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    AC and AMS (hundreds of hours). Technically Dirt Rally and Dirt 4 as well, but they both have their own flaws so I don't count them very much.
     
  16. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

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    as usual its 100/0/0 for logitech settings

    ingame anything from 0.75 - 1.20 any higher and youll be clipping

    steering torque minimum needs set too, i use g25 and have 14% but it could be lower or higher for yours, sit in the pit and let go of the wheel, if it oscillates side to side much more than a light bounce then its too high and back it down until it doesnt do that. this should tighten up the ffb deadzone in the middle of the g25/g27.

    to me rf2 has the best ffb ive felt in any game, i can catch the slides easier, i feel when its losing grip at the rear quicker and now the r3.5 has been updated i feel more low speed ffb.
     
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  17. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

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    You have some driver or setting somewhere that is screwed-up. rF2 and AMS both have the best feeling of natural weight and FFB fidelity of any racing sim when the wheel is configured and working properly. Hence all the rave reviews you read. Sorry you are having a problem, but unless you plan to give-up completely, buy these titles while they are on sale and you will be very happy when you get your wheel issues sorted.
     
  18. John-Eric Saxén

    John-Eric Saxén

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    Demo is same build as the full game, just the content is restricted. Also rF2 physics haven't basically changed in the last half year, S397 has worked on DX11 mostly, so the physics you get in the demo are almost 100% certainly the same as in the main game. Besides it would make no sense at all to market your game by "worsening" the physics in the demo, a demo is supposed to give a good picture of what you get.

    rF2 FFB is, at least for stock content, made so that the torque response is basically the same as in the real car. G27 produces roughy 3 Nm peak torque, whereas a real racing car can easily produce up to 15 Nm, so five times more. That means if rF2 represents the FFB of the real car 1:1, then it should feel five times weaker on your wheel. Many other sims try to "fake" the output to weak wheels like G27 by outputting a stronger force all the time - this is of course unrealistic, and gives a less nuanced FFB. AC even went as far as using totally unrealistic self aligning torque (SAT) values, which only recently they somewhat corrected.

    Anyway, to correct this, your options are basically to artifically fake bump the FFB to stronger (which other sims are doing), you can do this in rF2 as well by increasing the FFB multiplier and minimum torque from game settings. The other, better option is to buy a modern wheel with stronger FFB (most Thrustmaster wheels produce approximately 2x the force of a G27).
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  19. Coffer

    Coffer

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    With other games developing and updating their FFB and physics from time to time, I'm not so convinced by that, since the loading screen does seem to indicate that it's a 2015 build. If that is the case though then that's disappointing.

    To me, that paints the game in an extremely bad light. Catering to the actual wheel and not what the real racing car is supposed to get is, in my eyes, considerably less realistic and makes your argument quite bewildering.

    Less nuanced how? The biggest reason I made this thread was because, while playing it, the FFB felt horrendously lacking in any nuance whatsoever, in fact feeling dead and constant all the time.

    This makes me question the value of faux realism as a whole in simracing, frankly. If the goal is to accurately show what the car is like, then that is a considerably better approach than what you're saying rF2 is doing.

    Since the game itself is already quite expensive even on sale, a TM wheel is completely and utterly out of my reach at the moment. The recommended ones, in fact, cost more than 120% of my monthly salary.

    I've explicitly checked just now and the drivers are completely fine, as is the wheel itself.

    Seeing as the wheel is fine after doing a few checks, the game is certainly too expensive even on sale, after reading
    I'm ready to give up. Reporting my own thread to request its closure.
     
  20. Graham Laing

    Graham Laing
    ........ Mostly harmless Staff

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    We don't close threads when a question is answered (or not answered), we leave it open for others who maybe interested in the subject
     
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