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Did Vettel go too far this time?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Kyle Dunning, Mar 24, 2013.

Did Vettel go too far?

Poll closed Apr 7, 2013.
  1. Vettel had every right to fight his team mate.

    17.9%
  2. Vettel went too far, he should obey his team.

    60.3%
  3. Webber should always expect to have to defend when Vettel is behind him.

    21.8%
  1. Just now, we saw Vettel win the Malaysian Grand Prix, despite being told to hold station behind his teammate.
    He attacked him hard, like he was racing for the championship on the last lap of the last race of the season, while Mark Webber had been told to lower his engine and cruise on home. This made Webber a sitting duck, and tried everything he could to fend him off, but could not stop him.

    Mark Webber "flipped him the bird" from within his car after the overtake, and proceeded to give Vettel the cold shoulder, reminding him of team orders. He did not spray Vettel during the celebrations, or even put his arm around him. Webber also stated in the post race interview that Vettel will be protected by the team and that he was thoroughly disappointed. Vettel had nothing constructive to say in response to what had happened, and seemed to ramble on about everything but the incident, and said they should not discuss the issue publicly.

    It is clear that drivers are meant to drive for their own championship, but they also should be listening to their team. He basically robbed Webber of his race win that the team was happy to give him, as he had controlled the race for the majority. This is likely to cause major friction between Vettel and Webber for the rest of the season, and with it being so early on, its not going to help anything.

    Did Vettel go too far? You decide.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. I have no problem with him fighting. HOWEVER, Webber has been told horrible orders before and he obeyed them. Vettel should do the same...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Vettel will go down in history as the winner. Maybe that is all that matters to him, but many thousands of people will not forget his unsportsmanlike behaviour here. Is it really a win, when everyone else is told to hold station and he is the only one who decides to ignore it? The answer is NO, it is not a win, it is a pathetic, unsportsmanlike display by someone who lacks self-disipline. I hope it leaves a very sour taste in his mouth. And apologising after the event does not cut the mustard. If fair play does not matter to him, then he needs to take a look at himself.
    Contrast this with the behaviour of Nico Rosberg - yes he was understandably angry at first, but after the race, what a superb attitude, Mercedes had better make sure they repay him when the time comes.

    But all of this would be prevented if they were all allowed to just race :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. At the end of the day he's a racer, you're their to win, to show that you are the best at that very moment. Some people take that as you've got to use every opportunity you got, this is true in Vettel's case, he pounced and took what he want.
    We got to see a strong fight between the Bulls only because Vettel made the choice too, so why are people now saying he should of listened to team orders?

    Are people going to look at Vettel badly? Probably, people give Schumi alot of stick for the things he did, but I sure as hell respected Schumi for his drive and determination to show that he was the best at that very moment.

    I'll leave this quote which I found quite funny -
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. yup, Karma is a mother.

    A simple apology regardless of them being race drivers, is just not enough.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. The point is he did something against his team and team mate, yes we want them to race, but the point is disobeying your bosses orders.

    really, I mean, would you disobey your bosses orders? you get sacked. In the end no matter how much people will defend him or rant against him. The damage is done and cannot be repaired.

    Same with Schumi for whom I admired til the last laps of last years Brazilian GP. He was 7 time WC, but we can all recollect the bad images of him as well as the good ones, and it is a sour taste in the mouth when you admire someone like that, because you think of him as a perfect person due to his success, yet it is smeared in the bad actions he has taken.

    oh btw Vettel is a villain either way :ninja::D
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Well said.

    I'd agree that Vettel has put him self in a bad position with his team, theres no nice way to put it but he pretty much gave the team a big "f*** you" ignoring all their radio messages. I think there could be a lack of respect between Vettel and his pitwall/garage, and Red Bull would do good to reel in his behaviour as far as how he reacts with the team.
     
  8. And this coming from an Alonso fan... oh the irony.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Hats off to Webber for the way he (didn't) react to it I say. Understandably he was p***ed off but could you imagine how much Vettell would have spat his dummy out if it was the other way round!

    I like the way he spoke out about Vettell being "protected" by the team and he is completely right because come China I guarantee Red Bull act as if nothing happened.

    I'm a Hamilton fan all the way but as I don't think the Mercedes is quite enough to deliver the championship this season I now have chose Mark Webber as my favoured driver to win the championship and hopefully steal it right from under Vettell's nose just to see his face lol
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. I´m all for racing but at least make that clear for both drivers..

    Vettel should have stayed in his place, end of.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Rui F. Martins

    Rui F. Martins
    Premium Member

    i don't agree with team orders, i think that every pilot should be allowed to do ther race they want without having to let anyone pass or not passing anyone deliberately, but, since they exist, i think that they should be followed. It all worked well for Vettel and he was able to pass Webber, but it all could have went wrong and he could have put both of them out of the race. Also if Webber has followed team orders in the past, i think Vettel should also follow them, now, maybe, in another situation Webber won't follow the team orders and will attack Vettel just because of what Vettel did. This will certainly create a heavy mood inside Red Bull
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Of course they will. But realistically what other options do they have?
    Vettel has the points and they can't take them away from him. I also don't think they will give Webber a free victory, because a) you can't plan such a situation b) I would not make things better, because the true winner of that race would then be Vettel, not Webber.
    What's far worse is the atmosphere and distrust in the team it could create.
    Also Webber could start playing tricks with Vettel on track, but actually I don't think he will, because imo Webber is one of the most fairest drivers on track. Pretty much the opposite of Vettel in that respect.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Well the Question is did Vettel ignored the team order or wasn´t he fully aware of it?

     
  14. Here's hoping Vettel's alternator "explodes" next race.

    What Vettel has shown is that he can't be trusted as a team mate. No respect for anyone. Webber meanwhile thought about the best for the team and chose not to push the issue and save the car.
     
  15. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    Not only did Vetel display a total self centred focus on winning, but a total lack of respect to those around him, complete lack of integrity, and ignored his own team that hepled get him to the top. But when finally he can no longer deny the evidence, he resorts to lying to justify it.

    This man has a great future in POLITICS. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. It seems the majority of people agree that Vettel had gone too far. Just like any employer, they ask those under their wing to collaborate, and in this instance, Vettel put his own goals ahead of his teams. This will surely damage his reputation as a team player going forward, and any future team mates he may be combined with will be weary of him in those situations.

    The question is, if the boot was on the other foot, for example, Mark Webber had taken the lead from him after he had been told to hold station, would Red Bull treat him equally?
    Vettel is their three time World Champion, and they know he is one of their most valuable assets in the team.

    It would be difficult to pickup anyone of his caliber if he decided to leave, but also Vettel would have a tough time finding a team that designs cars like Adrian Newey does for the Red Bull team. He needs to be a team player moving forward, and realise that its not always about him.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Yeah I dont think they do have many options but surely as his employer they are well within their rights to impose some sort of punishment like a fine or something. Atleast if he is punished that has to go some way towards Webber feeling better about the situation whom I think surely is their main priority in the aftermath of all this because he is, for want of a better word, the ''victim'' in all of this. I know that if I blatantly ignored an order from my manager which the then led had a direct impact on a team member I would be in big trouble,
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. If I'm employed by a company and my boss/superior tells me do to something and I don't do it, i'll be reprimanded, warned officially, possibly have my employment terminated.

    But there is too much politics in F1, and too much politics in Red Bull in particular. So nothing will come of it, but Vettel definitely crossed the line by disobeying the orders of his Team Bosses.

    Actually, there was an occassion a few years ago where I was put into a position at my own work which was similar to Vettel's situation in the Malaysian GP. My boss told me to do something which he believed would be beneficial to our department, but I declined his request becuase I felt it would have compromised the guys in the team I managed in the company. My boss got shitty with me for not carrying out his direct orders, called me into a meeting and decided to give me an official warning. But I was in the good books of the big boss, who was the manager of my boss. So I called the manager of my boss, explained to him what happened and why it happened, explained to him the reasons why I thought what my boss was advocating would not be beneficial to the business, and he offered to sort things out. Later, it was my boss who got the reprimand, because I was on good political terms with his boss. This is how politics plays out in business.

    I dare say that when it comes to Red Bull, Vettel won't feel the heat of his rash decision to disobey team orders. The only who will be feeling the heat will be Newey and Horner for issuing these orders in the first place. I can see Vettel going straight to Dietrich and Helmut to complain about the orders he was given. Vettel has the good political connections at the top of the Red Bull hierarchy, Webber does not. Expect Newey and Horner to take the heat for giving those team orders, not Vettel for choosing to ignore them.
     
  19. Of course Vettel knew about the team orders and agreement, he is just too ruthless and is willing to go above the team orders just to win a race in an underhanded way.

    One part of me would like to see Vettel move to NASCAR:roflmao:. Will he be able to get away with it there without getting into any kind of physical altercation after a race?
     
  20. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    It's a classic situatuion where an outstanding person (who knows about his quality) makes his own decisions, well knowing that he can't really get fired or punished for that. I think many of the big champs did so and reviewing their whole career you won't think much of such particular situations but those situations are also one element to get where they end up.

    I don't say that I like that fact (in other words I hate it) but it's sad reality, not only in sports.

    So even though I'm a Vettel fan, I agree he had gone too far in that case. But to speak for Vettel (and considering his generaly nice behavior) I can imagine that he knows that he's doing wrong there but accepts it to be a "necessary evil" to finaly become a big champ.

    I mean who doesn't some times play "a little bit" wrong in a self defined "acceptable way" to reach his goals???

    Btw, I wonder why the teams (RBR and Mercedes) hinder to let the obviously quicker driver pass his slower team mate without the slow guy defending hard (like Webber did)??? As long as there's no driver having much more points than his team mate this would make the most sence to me and finally result in a more unaltered result.