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DFGT vs Thrustmaster TX (both stock)

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Msportdan, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    Please im on the verge of getting a TX after sending back a G27 as it didn't feel (ffb wise) much better than the DFGT, which I currently own.

    I like about DFGT:
    -sequential gear stick for those gt and dtm cars. Not bad for alternative to full manual on older cars too.
    -FFB isn't that bad even compared to G27
    -Flawless in reliability and construction (2 years still going)

    What I like about the TX is the FFB from what I hear is up to the T500 standards. But heard reports of bad reliability/support crashes. Please anyone with/had both leave some feedbacks of your opinions and game performance crashes, reliability etc etc. (on TX)
    See here, little worrying.

    Is the FFB alone worth the 220£ to buy this wheel. I hear the wheel and pedals aren't that great.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  2. Frank

    Administrator Staff Premium Member

    I would go for the T500RS since you get a lot better pedals, you can get some pretty sweet deals on it nowadays. The TX is fine as wheel but the pedals suck, even the G27 ones are a lot better. Both the TX and T500 are better in FFB but tbh, the difference isn't huge, the best part is that it is not rattling :).
  3. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    you say the ffb difference isn't huge you mean compared to the logitechs..
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  4. Frank

    Administrator Staff Premium Member

    Ye, compared to the logitechs, the biggest plus is that is stronger and smoother. But it is not a huge difference :).
  5. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    would you say worth the extra 220£/280eu I will spend.

    would it make raceroom feel better is the feeling more detailed, more effects etc.
  6. Frank

    Administrator Staff Premium Member

    It is especially more detailed, small bumps you can feel a lot better, less ffb clipping etc. I think it is defenitly worth the money yes, but I would really recommend the T500 over the TX due to the pedals, unless you plan to buy better pedals in the near future. It really does add to the experience.
  7. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    I possiobly would buy the Gte rim, not fussed about pedals, as im more than used to the DFGTs which are similar I suppose. I liked the g27 pedals don't get me wrong but I don't like that proper clutch and manual transmissions aren't simulated properly in most sims. im happy to go sequential. I do love the stick on the dfgt!
  8. I guess you're in the UK as you used the £ sign?
    It's not worth the money unless you are happy paying £100 more on top of the £220 and buying the T3PA pedals as well. The pedals on the G25/G27 are far better than those on the DFGT and TX. The G27 costs £149.99 at Currys or PCworld, and that's a good price for it.
    Unless you've found a way to use the G25/G27 pedals with the DFGT, I wonder why do you not want to upgrade to it?

    The standard TX pedals are bad, as they are ridiculously stiff. The rim is plastic like a DFGT but has rubber bits that feel a bit better. It's too small as well. The wheel feels faster than the G27, and lighter than a T500RS.

    On weak settings the TX does feel a bit like bad column mounted electric power steering in real cars. On strong settings it feels like trying to park a manual steering car, or going to the gym.

    To me the most important part of real driving is rotation or yaw and suspension movement. We don't have any of that driving sims. :(
  9. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    I did buy the G27 and just took it back this morning to pc world. I wasnt happy knowing I wouldn't get much use out of the clutch and shifter as I race mainly race cars (with seq shift) and not road cars.

    I actually don't mind the DFGT pedals, suppose its what im used to, so the pedals in the TX doesn't bother me, especially if the FFb is out of this world...... what does however bother me, is its failure rate.
  10. TX over a G27 or DFGT any day of the week. I had a G27, then a T500 and then a TX. The Thrustmaster T500, TX, T300 are a step above any of the Logitech wheels. Its pretty immediately noticeable from the first time you use one.
  11. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    reliability? harsh calibration?

    Ive emailed Tm myself just now highlighting my concerns.

    Juat played RRe with the 92s with a DFGT and it feels pretty good/strong/detailed how much better can the TX be.? is the price forcing you to think its miles better.?
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  12. The harsh calibration is what it is. I don't know of anyone that has had a TX fail yet to due the calibration procedure but I do wish it was not quite as harsh for sure. Its better in every way, price has nothing to do with it. I also own a Fanatec CSW v2 which is a lot more expensive than the TX.
  13. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    As I'm used to the dfgt pedals will the TX set bother me?
    I would like to know more about the ffb as this is the reason I will buy. All I hear Is smoother stronger but want to know what exactly makes it better in terms of detail
  14. The T300/TX is approximately 75% more powerful than the DFGT in pure wheel test spin speed testing. But it's also much smoother, much easier to turn the wheel, and the motor doesn't get in the way when drifting like it does with the DFGT. t300 pedals are also better: longer accelerator throw, and the brake is firm enough that you can lean on it, unlike the floppy DFGT pedal which shows 5% if you so much as touch it. I can't think of a single area where I'd prefer the DFGT over the T300 (with the nice metal rim), since personally I loathe the cheap nasty sequential stick on the DFGT and never dared to really use it since I was worried it would snap.

    For reference, the DFGT and G27 rims are both 27cm diameter. The TX/T300 are 28cm diameter. The Fanatec Porsche wheels and T500 are 30cm diameter.

    What does smoother/stronger mean? Well smoother means you don't feel the cogs grinding together as you turn the wheel. Stronger means the kick from hitting a kerb or bump is greater, the force trying to center the wheel in turns is larger, and most importantly it can spin the rim faster. This is relevant any time you have oversteer, since in a real car the front wheels try to follow the direction of momentum of the car if you let them, so as the back of the car pushes out the wheel should turn automatically to follow the front wheels. A low powered FFB motor can't turn the wheel rim fast enough, so you end up with the game trying to simulate oversteer but the tools (FFB wheel) not able to do what the game wants. The more power you have in the FFB motor, the closer to simulating real car behavior you get. Obviously the T300 or T500 have their own limits, but they do get a lot closer and you can let the wheel do it's thing much more than with a DFGT where you need to help the rim around to avoid spinning the car during oversteer.

    Having said that, if you are happy with the DFGT, why upgrade? Enjoy the wheel, buy more race sims instead of a new wheel.

    (I say this as an owner of the DFGT, G25 and T300, btw)
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  15. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    im not sure its worth its price tbh, its more like a 150£ wheel, its only the base I suppose your paying for. I wouldn't mind if it had 100% reliability but it hasn't and that concerns me for a 220£ piece of plastic. Hopefully it will come down in price, or go up in Reliability.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  16. I agree the TX is an upgrade in every way over a DFGT, but I don't think it's worth the money over a G27 at £150. I'd say maybe get the TX/T300 if the G27 was the same price.
    The TX/T300 start at £220-£250, but to get similar pedals it's another £100. Now you've got three pedals you may as well get a shifter like the G27 has, that's another £100. Later on you think the wheel feels cheap and you want a leather rim, just like the G27. That's another, you've guessed it, £100! Even if you don't want the rim or shifter, you've spent over £400. :o

    The price for wheels is high, but the price for some accessories is crazy.

    The main problem for me, is the TX and T500RS are far too expensive for what they offer. The noise and friction of gears is annoying, but the belt drive wheels cost far too much for what you get. Also it seems like they are more likely to go wrong outside of warranty.

    You buy a G27 for £150 in the UK. That's a good deal if you can tolerate the extra noise and friction of gears, as the pedals are decent.

    You said 'the motor doesn't get in the way when drifting like it does with the DFGT.'
    I think the motor gets 'in the way' on all the FFB wheels, as the reaction time is too slow due to motor/wheel inertia.
    I think it's not possible to get a fast response without using a direct drive wheel, as the motor is spinning too fast using any kind of belt or cog gearing.
    We need hydraulic force feedback, or a direct drive wheel, to get close to real steering.

    You also said: 'The more power you have in the FFB motor, the closer to simulating real car behaviour you get. '
    It depends on the car, but I think a lot of people have far too strong force feedback. I know it's easier to sense the tyre grip level, but it's not right on a road car.
    With power steering you need a force of about 4-6nm when stationary, and far lower when rolling.
    The G27 produces 3nm, so it's ok for simulating any power assisted road car. It's only high downforce racing cars, that have a really high steering effort.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
  17. Clearly the DFGT and G27 are very good value for money. But just as clearly increasing the FFB power costs increasingly more.

    The cheapest direct drive wheel (Accuforce) is around $1750 without any pedals, most other direct drive wheels are even more expensive. The CSWv2 is around $900 without pedals. Thrustmaster's offerings are significantly cheaper and are effectively at the lower end of that scale. In comparison to Fanatec clubsport they are cheap, it's that simple.

    In terms of compromise, if one doesn't want to spend on a direct drive wheel or CSWv2, in my opinion the T300 is clearly the best alternative. If you want the best price performance, then stay with Logitech, by all means. But convincing oneself that a G27 offers enough power is not the way to go, because if you've ever tried drifting with a G27 you will know that it doesn't spin fast enough, you have to help it.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    I must admit and my brother as he tested my tx on Initial install when it worked. We both agreed that the ffb it gives resembles more a real car than the gear mechanisms. It just felt les like grinding cogs and more like actual tyre traction felt through the steering column
  19. I agree, but it's at least three times the price for a belt wheel that feels more like real car steering. The G27 isn't a great wheel, but it's far better value for money.
    If the TX/T300 came with the T3PA pedals as standard for £150, then I'd recommend them instead. However in the UK now they're almost £100 more just for the basic better wheel with worse pedals.
    The Mad Catz FFB wheel and pedals is arguably the worse value on the market. £300+ and overall it's worse than any other £150-250 wheel and pedals.

    No idea if Accuforce or other direct drive wheels will even get rid of the inertia and oscillation FFB wheels suffer from, or whether it's all hype for people who like to sweat and get hand blisters from ridiculously strong FFB. Also they cost far too much. :(

    I'd just buy this TX wheel and pedals:
    On sale for just £1,983.10 now! What a mistake. :o