• "Auto racing began 5 minutes after the second car was built." - Henry Ford
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest. Follow RaceDepartment on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Twitch, Steam and YouTube.

Featured Debate: The Rights and Wrongs of the Verstappen Penalty

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Paul Jeffrey, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. Paul Jeffrey

    Paul Jeffrey
    RaceDepartment Editor-in-Chief Staff Premium

    Messages:
    7,080
    Ratings:
    +11,960
    Vestappen USGP Pass.png
    Max Verstappen lost out on an epic podium finish at Austin this past weekend thanks to a five second penalty for overtaking off track, but was it deserved?

    "Verstappengate" has caused plenty of discussion amongst both the professionals within Formula One and the army of fans watching back at home, with many believing a five second penalty and subsequent demotion from a podium place was overly harsh on the Dutch driver following a sublime pass on Kimi Raikkonen in the Ferrari right at the end of a somewhat dull US Grand Prix.

    Despite the substantial noise from fans and insiders one thing is clear... Verstappen passed the Ferrari will all four wheels off the racing surface... is this acceptable in light of the lax regulation of track limits during the US GP?


    Let us know what you think in the comments below!
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    • Haha Haha x 1
  2. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    I am the new Colin Mcrae I am Premium

    Messages:
    6,596
    Ratings:
    +3,050
    Fantastic pic in your op Paul. Is that a new part of the circuit he's on? :D

    Of course in my opinion the move was illegal. The stewards had no choice but to act on that.

    He took a shortcut off track to get past a competitor. How can anyone condone that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 24
    • Haha Haha x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. mibrandt

    mibrandt

    Messages:
    31
    Ratings:
    +21
    I wonder why the design of the track is like that? It seems crazy to make it possible to drive there - yet illegal. I dont think you can blame Verstappen for making the pass.
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • Haha Haha x 6
    • Angry Angry x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  4. ThatAudiFan

    ThatAudiFan

    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +12
    Like I mentioned in the USGP thread, this penalty is completely justified on its own, however it is the inconsistency which was there for the whole weekend which should cause the debate
     
    • Agree Agree x 40
    • Like Like x 2
  5. elrollaor

    elrollaor

    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +28
    f1 stewards are useless :thumbsdown: ,look at motogp without penalties for overtaking
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. Nibiru Cataclysm

    Nibiru Cataclysm

    Messages:
    71
    Ratings:
    +21
    Car is fully off the racing track. If this is considered "legal" then there may as well be no track limits whatsoever. The only reason Christian Horner was so animated afterwards was because it was his driver...if it had been for instance Raikonen who had made the pass, then the same person would have been all in favour of a penalty.

    The one thing it added was a smidgen of excitement in anotherwise typically boring technical procession of cars in what some were calling "a race". Time to let F1 die a graceful death and let us live with the memories of the days when drivers like James Hunt had personality and balls and weren't all about hairspray and bleached teeth...
     
    • Agree Agree x 33
    • Angry Angry x 1
  7. Fabian Biehne

    Fabian Biehne
    Premium

    Messages:
    550
    Ratings:
    +482


    :D

    As spectacular as this move is imo the penalty is ok. He’s clearly offtrack with all wheels. However F1 needs to think about their penalty system. Perhaps start with building tracks again which aren’t huge parking lots and have real grass or kerbs instead? That would be a start.
     
    • Haha Haha x 28
    • Agree Agree x 16
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Kevin Bradley

    Kevin Bradley
    Premium

    Messages:
    87
    Ratings:
    +69
    Technically speaking the punishment was correct. However the problem lies with the inconsistency in decision making by the stewards. You cannot punish one driver (max), but then allow numerous other 'off track' indiscretions to go unpunished.

    It also makes no difference if the move was carried out chasing a podium place or a change of place for 15th - you either enforce the rules or you don't. There shouldn't be a situation where some drivers are penalised and others are allowed to get away with it.

    In my opinion a silly decision that provides more questions than answers and left a sour taste in the mouth at the end of an otherwise entertaining race.
     
    • Agree Agree x 21
    • Like Like x 6
  9. Nick Milton

    Nick Milton
    Nick Premium

    Messages:
    934
    Ratings:
    +265
    I agree with max on letting the drivers race the cars like days of old, but track is track, off the track isn't the track, all four wheels? deserved a penalty imo, had it been mud race, wonder if he would have complained?

    Having said that, I'm a verstappen fan,.and a Ferrari fan.
    ( but not a Hamilton fan)
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. Fat Rich

    Fat Rich

    Messages:
    72
    Ratings:
    +51
    I've said no, not because of the 5 second penalty which was fair enough, but for the penalty points they put on Max's license.

    Do the FIA want to have close racing or are they trying to put drivers off having a go?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Angry Angry x 1
  11. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    2,099
    Ratings:
    +784
    I'd really like to hear Kimi's opinion on that!
    In smaller series they have to decide more "black and white".
    Over the limits: penalty. Always and ever!

    But in F1 with all the cameras, stewards and what not, they are able to gather all perspectives, discuss, go into the situation of both drivers.
    I kind of liked what Niki Lauda said after the race.
    He had two main points:
    1. The result from that will be that we won't see such an overtake anymore. Which is a pity. Because even without going over the limits, he would've gone past!

    2. He only went over the limits because Kimi closed a little bit and he just reacted to that. The rules are there to make it fair and also more safe. Max now has two possibilities for the next time: don't overtake which is hurting the sport or go for it without going over the inside and risk a crash next time.
    I prefer the track cut over both!

    As said, I think Mr. Lauda said something reasonable and I like to agree! For me it wasn't a cut to overtake. It was a cut to keep the overtake more safe and in F1, the stewards should be able to differentiate between that!

    Little edit: that doesn't mean that the penalty was completely wrong. You can debate for both sides but I think at this moment, the sports rather needs some good action and not even more restrictions.
    That's why I'd like to hear Kimi's opinion on it. Whether he thinks Max did good or if he thinks it was a real cut.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 14
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Tom Blackett

    Tom Blackett

    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +95
    Illegal overtake, sausage kurb for next year's event.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Shap

    Shap

    Messages:
    116
    Ratings:
    +41
    You should see Paul Ricard
     
    • Haha Haha x 6
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. ears

    ears
    flying bollards Assetto Corsa F1 mod revival Premium

    Messages:
    451
    Ratings:
    +216
    The poll should read 'in your opinion did the FIA get the decision right'.

    Or perhaps it should be 'do you love Max Verstappen?'.

    The outcome would be the same.
     
    • Haha Haha x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Angry Angry x 1
  15. ears

    ears
    flying bollards Assetto Corsa F1 mod revival Premium

    Messages:
    451
    Ratings:
    +216
    Or maybe they should put a big pile of tyres there, or an armco, or some little ramps that will launch cars into the air.
     
    • Haha Haha x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Enagee

    Enagee

    Messages:
    177
    Ratings:
    +77
    Exciting overtake , credit due , was the last lap desperate move...but still illegal and clear cut.....try that on pcars 2, AC , Iracing ...you'd still get a penalty. As said the reverse and Redbull would be screaming penalty ..
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. chargingcar

    chargingcar
    Premium

    Messages:
    4,549
    Ratings:
    +4,935
    Its clear its simple ,
    if the line that Max took to overtake Kimi on that corner was a normal racing line , Kimi would have took that line 1st into the bend so there would have been no option for Max to even consider the move in the 1st place ,

    If you have all 4 wheels off track and overtake someone that place wants giving back , this is the rules and they are correct , yes the penalty was correct ,
    maybe he should have given the place back straight away .
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  18. David Wright

    David Wright

    Messages:
    753
    Ratings:
    +259
    The design of modern tracks is bizarre, and a major contributor to the confusion. While exceeding the track limits was widespread during the race, cutting inside a corner to overtake is arguably a different issue. Was Max forced to do this by Kimi? I'm not convinced.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. chargingcar

    chargingcar
    Premium

    Messages:
    4,549
    Ratings:
    +4,935
    Going offtrack is going offtrack man couldnt be no clearer .
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. mibrandt

    mibrandt

    Messages:
    31
    Ratings:
    +21
    If you make an area on the inside of the curb that fits a whole car the natural instinct of a driver would be to use it. If it was grass he would have no other option than to back off.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1