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CTDP06 - Tire temperatures, camber and pressure testing

Discussion in 'rFactor' started by Dekraa, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. Ive been driving the F248 around in circles now at Spa, covering well over 200laps and Im just out of options now. Im talking about tire temperatures. I cant get them to those numbers I like. The most obvious problem is the middle temperature. To sum up my practise I can show some statistic.

    I started with (1) Best laptime 1m46.3
    Front camber / Tire pressure: -1.8 / 115
    Rear camber / Tire pressure : -1.0 / 110
    I did 7laps and took the average of the last three.
    Tire temperatures:
    O M I - I M O
    100 97 109 - 105 92 96
    97 90 105 - 105 89 97

    Although I like the inner temperature to the outer, its pretty clear that the middle temperature was off the scale. To low pressure presumable. However. So I thought of raising pressure but also put more negative camber because I reasoned that Spa is a circuit with high speed corners, so therefore I need more negative camber to put my tires perpindicular to the road. Maybe I'll get more inner temperature on the straights because of that but thats the way I should go. I thought. So I ended up with this.

    (2) Best laptime 1m46.2
    Front camber / Tire pressure: -2.8 / 130
    Rear camber / Tire pressure : -2.0 / 125
    94 97 107 - 103 91 90
    92 91 104 - 102 85 90

    The difference with (1) was now that I didnt get higher inner temperature but colder. That was because I used more pressure though. I was pretty happy with the front but one thing that started to worry me was the rear. As you can see my middle temperature for the rear is below my outer temperature although I used fairly high preassure (125) and in the manual for CTDP06 it says that I should use pressure between 105 (monaco) to 125 (barcelona) with the rear being 5-10kpa lower than the front. And here I was using 125 and still no satisfying middle temperature. Because
    what was worrying me was I started having problems in bus stop and la source (slow speed corners) with my rear having no grip when turning in in comparison with (1). Still the laptime was 0.1s faster but I wasnt comfortable as the previous one. So for the next test I tried something totally different. To get a clearer picture.

    (3) Best laptime 1m45.8
    Front camber / Tire pressure: -3.5 / 128
    Rear camber / Tire pressure : -2.2 / 115
    90 94 107 - 104 90 88
    93 90 107 - 106 89 93

    Good news, I had the best test so far. I could with no problems drive around the track. It was easy, controllable, nice to drive. Laptimes were consistent, all laps within 0.5s. I thought, Yes! Bad news, look at the data! To uneven. Not the way to go at all. I had recently found out that it was videly accepted in the motor racing world that the inner should be highest temperature and middle should be between the inner and outer readings. And the difference between the inner and outer should be around 10degrees. And at my data, the front left was a 17 celcius degree difference between inner and outer and the middle was not in between those values. And worse still, the rear temperatures was totally screwed up. Because the middle was lower than the inner and outer! So what to do, back to the garage of course for some tweaking.

    (4) Best laptime 1m46.4
    Front camber / Tire pressure left-right: -2.1 / 127 - 123
    Rear camber / Tire pressure left-right: -0.9 / 128 - 127
    95 95 105 - 105 92 95
    92 89 100 - 99 88 92

    Back to square one. This test was not a good one. I was happy although with the camber settings because now the spread between inner and outer was 10degrees at front and around 8 at the rear. So I thought now that this is settled, I only need to find the right pressure. Easier said than done. I had by now tried to use different pressure at each wheel because they work under different load while cornering. And it seemed to pay off. However, again when I tried to raise the pressure to get the middle temperature up in the rear it became difficult to control the rear end in slow speed corners. It wanted to snap and it was hard to keep it. Therefore I took it easy in slow speed and ended up with a slower laptime because of that. I was beginning to think that this mod is flawed or something, trying to find some excuse for my lack in setting up the car. But what was obvious was that I needed much more pressure to get my middle crown up in the rear, but then it would become undriveable. So I did a different approach and ended up with this.

    (5) Best laptime 1m46.6
    Front camber / Tire pressure left-right: -2.1 / 120 - 113
    Rear camber / Tire pressure left-right: -0.9 / 103 - 102
    98 97 108 - 107 93 97
    102 93 109 - 109 92 101

    My god. Even worse. Why I tried even lower pressure? Well, I guess I just had to try it out. As you can see, it didnt worked at all. And my laptime was far off. Although I managed 1m46.6, it was a one off. The rest was in the 47range and 48. I lost concentration because I knew I had moved in the wrong direction. There was no grip, and it understeered and. Well, no good to sum it up. The middle crown was out of proportion. To Low! Still the spread between inner and outer was good. So what to do now. I began search over the forums, read much about tires. And still trying to
    think this racing as a game and exploit it. There must be a loophole somewhere. Still, I found very little that was writted about CTDP06, nothing at all. So no help there, I found a lot about GT2 and other series. Based on the same engine I think but still. F1 is F1 I thought. After much searching I found the something called the .TBC file in rfactor CTDP folder. And I found the data of my Bridgestone 06 hard compund.


    FRONT
    Temperatures=(96.3, 90.3)
    OptimumPressure=(64.0, 0.018819)
    REAR
    Temperatures=(96.3, 90.3)
    OptimumPressure=(59.0, 0.016940)


    And I found a calculation that would optimise my tire pressure by using the average tire load a tire had in a lap. So I took, for an example, my front left. I looked in MoTec that my average load for that tire was 3647N. And I multiplied that the the second number at the data (0.018819) and added the first number 64.0. 3647*0.0188819+64 = 132.6Kpa. Voila! Time to test!

    (6) Best laptime 1m47.9
    Front camber / Tire pressure left-right: -2.1 / 132 - 127
    Rear camber / Tire pressure left-right: -0.9 / 138 - 140
    91 91 100 - 98 87 89
    89 88 95 - 93 85 87

    USELESS! Dont look at the tire readings because I spun at every lap. Impossible for me to drive that car. That ammount of tire pressure in the rear was to much. It was okey in high speed corners, but in slow corners. I dont know. It was just a joke. Nothing to do. It felt that I could have run faster with my feet around those corners than pushing the F248 around it. It snapped so quickly I didnt react.

    Still, that was what optimum tire pressure should be like. 138kpa in the rear! Maybe if I had pushed properly, the middle reading maybe had been satisfactory. But still, if I cant drive it. Whats the point? And isnt it unrealistic that the rear pressure would be higher than my front? Still, looking at the tyre load data we can see that the rear is being under more load (Front: 3647-3383 Rear: 4681-4816) during a hotlap than the front. And thus, need more tire pressure to compensate.

    So, conclusion? I have no idea. Im lost. Totally. What I was trying to do, or would have liked to acheive was a temperature of I-M-O = 105-100-95 at the front and rear. But I was not even close. The best setup I found was with a setup that had severly more inside temperature and a middle temperature that was well below of the inner and outer. It doesnt sound very realistic but if thats the way to go in CTDP06, so be it.

    Anyone that can cast some light on this subject?
     
  2. Hey, i race in FSR using a modified version of CTDP 06,

    I run 1000's of laps each week in testing, and my usual find is that tyre pressures can range between,

    front left & right - 115 - 130

    rear left & right - 109 - 120

    This obviosly depends on each track, and how many corners go left to right causing tyre wear and temperature build up, at spa you would want the tyre pressures pretty much even on front and rear due to the fact that the corners are all spread out and pretty much even in left to right.

    Cambers i havnt changed for about 1 year now.. the general trend is to use -4.2 front on both left and right and -2.4 on the rear both left and right

    optimum temperature for this mod is anything between 90 - 95

    If you can keep your tyres to anywhere in that region you are doing well, as they soon heat up on super softs, usual hotlap temperature exceeds 100 degrees and sometimes reaches 110 in peaks, depending on track surface and nature.

    In race stints you should aim to keep temperature down to below 100 as once you start to exceed 100, it causes graining and lack of traction develops, to do this you simply add tyre pressure to whichever tyre you require to stay cooler.

    Hope this helps :)
     
  3. I used maximum negative camber and BaNg I clocked 1m44.8, a second quicker than previous one. Maybe it is because Spa is a fast corner track and thus why I should need more negative camber than at other tracks to keep the tyres perpendicular to the road. Guess I will find out when I hit Monza. But seriously. This isnt right is it?

    And what about the tires you say. You should keep them between 95-100 degrees before they start to grain? Is graining implented? What is optimum temprature? I mean, there are 10tires in the game, and two of each. And it says in the manual that a specific tire optimum temperature is 6degrees higher than its initial temperature. Starting with 01cold at 90, 01hot 90, 02cold 90.67, 02hot 93.67, 03cold 91.34, and so on and so on. Ending with 10cold 96, 10hot 99.. So each tire has its own optimum temperature? Or so they say..

    Which means that my 06hot (96.34 initial temperature) would have his best grip at 102.34degrees?!!! Or. Im more than a little confused on this matter..
     
  4. I wont say anything else i looking at it the fsr mod is completley different to the origional ctdp lol

    Dont worry too much about optimum temperatures.. anything between 95 - 105 is fine mate..

    Also the camber thing is strange.. there must be a fault in the setup somewhere... over a race distance that would not work im sure of it..