Can sim racers advance into real world motor racing?

[Georg Winter]

You guys got it so wrong. Sim racing is perfect for racers, just put on your oculus rift, hit the throttle and boom, no chance to get killed or kill someone, no chance to get hurt. Its perfect and you know it.
Reality is for someone with a huge bucket of money and balls.
Racedepartment stands for people like us - sim-racers, who are not afraid to admit it "we dont want reality whatsoever." I mean if we really want reality why do we bother buying the sim stuff, wheels and various games-simulators? I know I could take a car and go to a track, but I dont want to. Because simulation is what drives sim racers, and reality is for people with no skills and bunch of money. Am i right?

I dont think that this represente the majority of sim racers.
I could take 3000EUR and build some awesome sim racing rig or I take the money and do at least some amateur real life racing. What do you guess how many races you will do when you apply at some racing team? probably zero I guess. And for that money you even dont get a car which is really fun to drive.
And if the Nordschleife wouldnt be 600km away, I would drive on it as often as possible when its open for public driving But at least I have the Autobahn were I can drive 250+kph

 

[Dan Allen]

You guys got it so wrong. Sim racing is perfect for racers, just put on your oculus rift, hit the throttle and boom, no chance to get killed or kill someone, no chance to get hurt. Its perfect and you know it.
Reality is for someone with a huge bucket of money and balls.
Racedepartment stands for people like us - sim-racers, who are not afraid to admit it "we dont want reality whatsoever." I mean if we really want reality why do we bother buying the sim stuff, wheels and various games-simulators? I know I could take a car and go to a track, but I dont want to. Because simulation is what drives sim racers, and reality is for people with no skills and bunch of money. Am i right?

NO! You are definitely wrong. The only reason I'm simracing at the moment is because I can't afford to race yet. If I ever get enough, even to start something like Formula Ford, I will put more time and energy in to that over simracing any day! I would imagine a lot of others are the same.

 

[SOLO59]

@Dan Allen is right... we sim race because we simply can't afford the real thing. Then after years of sim racing, one would begin to realize that this is what's reality. Real life racing just isn't going to happen. Then end up falling in love with sim racing, it becomes one of the best things to happen to you/experience, obsessive with sim rig customization, getting involved with sim racing communities and racing with like minded people from all over the world.

Sim racing can be something that leads to an opportunity into real life motor sports. VSR will not teach you how to race a real race car but gives you an idea of what racing is about. Transit bus drivers are placed in simulator before they are trained driving real buses. Police officers are trained in simulated physical and verbal conflicts before they are put into the real life situation. Simulated experiences already leads to promising careers or is used for practice/training. So why can't the same be said for sim racing leading to a full time spot in real motorsports?
If only race teams could hire scouts to find the next big motorsports race car driver through VSR official championship leagues. Then train these new drivers, sign them on a contract, and a potential motorsports champion has been created! This is only dream if mine and will never come true

 

[Final Lap 2]

as a general rule no matter what i do i come third ive done real kart days and come third and i seem to come third the majority of the time in assetto corsa.
id be kidding myself if i said id rather car games than a racing career but i do like that those without the financial backing but have the obvious skills are finally being given the opportunity to get a real drive.

 

[Dan Allen]

If only race teams could hire scouts to find the next big motorsports race car driver through VSR official championship leagues. Then train these new drivers, sign them on a contract, and a potential motorsports champion has been created! This is only dream if mine and will never come true

One word. Money.

I would imagine teams would be too afraid to take the risk with someone who doesn't have any real track time. I mean, they may have proven they have the skill with simracing, but you can't prove you have the fearlessness to race unless you're in a real car....

James Hunt know's how it goes

 

[Sri Sri]

I think the matter of virtual to reality is taken a bit too far very often. Of course, GT Academy shows us that it's possible but don't lets forget Gran Turismo is still considered as a simcade game. So then what is the inherent value that any simcade or more realistic PC sim racing have? To me it is the fact that in varying degrees, these games can make one accustomed to what an oversteer or understeer means, how to compensate when sliding away, what a racing line means etc, which is to say the very basics of motor racing which you would learn in the first day of a 2-3 day racing school except that you are doing it practically instead of an instructor teaching you with a white-board.

In addition the winners of GT Academy or even the Iracing championship also would have possessed superior analytic skills required to actually convert the massive information overload which would have happened all throughout the contest coming in from their time playing the game and then from the coaches, their gym instructors, their peers etc. Seen this way it is also about psychology as much as it is about talent. After all, virtually, the paces separating even say, the top 100, were I believe a second or so but by the time the real races started the relative times started to increase much more.

This is not to say that any Tom, Dick or Harry who is given a sim to drive on the first day of racing school would be a champ by the third. Just like learning any other art, the person who has put in many hours in a game would be more confident in it as it would almost be second nature to him.

Before sim racing I used to see races on TV and had a fair understanding of vehicle dynamics but it was only after the "practical" lessons of sims that I got to understand and enjoy watching races even more.

But in the real world, the many vagaries of the environment are not something which a sim can give. Sims have their purpose in getting racers accustomed to tracks and perhaps more important here is the physical elements such as pedals and wheel which are almost as tough as real cars.

So, if I ever get to race in real, I am sure I can put my sim racing experience to good use but that is not to say that that is the defining thing. For all I know, if I jump into a race car without any sim racing experience I might still be good.

 

[Brendan Little]

the best immersion you will get when some high-res oculus rift or something gets released. Than Sim Racing will really become very close to reality.

Only thing I would say to that is the immersion is probably right, but the feel of the car wont be. You wont get that bond and feel you do when your in your car by sitting on your sofa with a 25mm plastic pipe rig! Visually you can sit in there look around and go WOW, but it wont simulate that feeling of pressure pushing down on you when you enter the Karussell or the feeling of when you exit it with two wheels off the ground. Yes, sim racing is getting better and better and the software and hardware is giving us the opportunity to get as close as we can. But its still not full there, 80% maybe but that 20% counts.

You guys got it so wrong. Sim racing is perfect for racers, just put on your oculus rift, hit the throttle and boom, no chance to get killed or kill someone, no chance to get hurt. Its perfect and you know it.
Reality is for someone with a huge bucket of money and balls.
Racedepartment stands for people like us - sim-racers, who are not afraid to admit it "we dont want reality whatsoever." I mean if we really want reality why do we bother buying the sim stuff, wheels and various games-simulators? I know I could take a car and go to a track, but I dont want to. Because simulation is what drives sim racers, and reality is for people with no skills and bunch of money. Am i right?

I don't think you are personally. They say you don't feel as alive as you do moments from death, so the danger and reality of racing gives you that buzz that you don't get on a sim. We also buy sim racing gear because we love motorsports and racing all the time. You don't get that with trackdays or real racing. You cant just decide on the way home to do 10 laps round Bedford, and even at the ring, its not always a TF day. Believe me, if I could I would, and thats coming from someone that races sim games pretty much every day and track days 10x a year minimum. Sim racing I can jump on before dinner, do a couple of laps, have dinner, do a race (finish mid table again!) and then go to bed.

I dont think that this represente the majority of sim racers.
I could take 3000EUR and build some awesome sim racing rig or I take the money and do at least some amateur real life racing. What do you guess how many races you will do when you apply at some racing team? probably zero I guess. And for that money you even dont get a car which is really fun to drive.
And if the Nordschleife wouldn't be 600km away, I would drive on it as often as possible when its open for public driving But at least I have the Autobahn were I can drive 250+kph

3000EUR I don't think would get you far in a real racing series, you could possibly do 2/3 races but you have to factor in all the things you would need. The car up to full FIA spec (even in the lower depths of racing you need the correct seat, correct fireproof overalls, correct certified cage etc..) before you decide on your spares which would be tyres, fuel, general maintenance. My track car is probably worth around £8-10K and to enter a race I would need to spend a further 5K on it to get it to pass FIA approval (new cage to spec would be £3K) so yes you could buy a awesome sim rig for 3000EUR and be happy for a good 5-10 years, 3000EUR would sort you out a good year or two on trackdays, but wouldn't give you the cash flow to compete in a race series, and isn't that want a sim racer really wants to strive to, the ultimate feeling of reality and winning a race....

 

[DinoMSi]

One word. Money.

I would imagine teams would be too afraid to take the risk with someone who doesn't have any real track time. I mean, they may have proven they have the skill with simracing, but you can't prove you have the fearlessness to race unless you're in a real car....

James Hunt know's how it goes

Big character also plays a huge role! "Got to have the breakfast of champions"

 

[DinoMSi]

Why would they want to advance in real world racing? Isnt Sim racing enough as an experience? Thats why most of us still hang on to our Logitech G27s and Thrustmasters ;-) We dont want real racing.

I wouldn't sim race if it wasn't for the real world.... once I applied a g force + on my beat up eagle talon on a loop ramp, I knew exactly what I needed all along. Its as easy as wanting it badly enough.

 

[Ado Pusina]

ok, I respect your answers. But what should the mayority of simracers feel about their hobby, in case they really dont want to get hurt or spend money on track days? I mean are they not good enough to be racers? What is a racer in general?? And are real racers really that much different in mentality and skill vs. the sim-racer? Its not importend what you drive, its how you drive ;-)
Sim-racing is very competitive and I have to say this, its way to popular than real racing because almost anyone can compete, and those who do stand out from the rest of the sim racing crowd, really do have some serious set of skills. Isn't this racing? Isn't this worthy of genuine respect? In comparison in real world there is not much competition, we witnessed just how much a competition can be fierce at the RaceRoom hot lap competitions (up to 15k participants).
My point is, sim racing is a genuine form and legitimate honest racing. There should be no discussion can simracers do stuff what real racers do out there. There should be a discussion can the real racers do stuff in the sim, where there is no bumm feel, no tire feel, whould they be quick enough to stand out from the rest?

 

[Brendan Little]

ok, I respect your answers. But what should the mayority of simracers feel about their hobby, in case they really dont want to get hurt or spend money on track days? I mean are they not good enough to be racers? What is a racer in general?? And are real racers really that much different in mentality and skill vs. the sim-racer? Its not importend what you drive, its how you drive ;-)
Sim-racing is very competitive and I have to say this, its way to popular than real racing because almost anyone can compete, and those who do stand out from the rest of the sim racing crowd, really do have some serious set of skills. Isn't this racing? Isn't this worthy of genuine respect? In comparison in real world there is not much competition, we witnessed just how much a competition can be fierce at the RaceRoom hot lap competitions (up to 15k participants).
My point is, sim racing is a genuine form and legitimate honest racing. There should be no discussion can simracers do stuff what real racers do out there. There should be a discussion can the real racers do stuff in the sim, where there is no bumm feel, no tire feel, whould they be quick enough to stand out from the rest?

What separates sim racers from real racers. If you take the crop of sim racers that are willing to go all out and have the talent and the skill to do lap after lap all within a second of each other and consistently produce great speed and skill. Not a lot. But you put the case forward yourself in not willing to be hurt and this is a major separation, the ability to not think about the what if and take risks. You could be the best sim racer on this site, but stuck in a real race car going around Bathurst inches away from the wall through the mountain and being about to push the envelope so that you can get milliseconds off your the car in front to then out break him in the corner knowing you'll be near on the limit to do it. Thats what makes the difference. Sim racing, you hit the wall and the hit esc and move on. Real racing they scrap you off the wall and you go back to the pits in an ambulance. I would reckon that the majority of public servers wouldn't have the big crash at the start of all races if you stuck them in real cars and said 'break a leg' they would all tiptoe into the first corner at spa!

I'm not saying that sim racing is no where near that of real racing, infact I like to think that the skill, perspective and style you learn from sim racing is easily carried over to the real world (I for one use sim racing to learn a track and cornering points before going to the actual track). You stick a sim racer in a race car against someone that hasn't done either and the sim racer will be faster. You stick the sim racer up against someone who has done a few trackdays then i would think 8/10 times they would be slower. What a sim cant teach you properly is the bumps, camber, feel and all round environment of being behind the wheel of a car on that track in real life.

Sim racing is possibly the next best thing to a competitive track day, however I would say its still a fair distance away. Both extremely good fun in their own rights, but I would love to hear what you felt like if you got into a fully caged, noisy and setup track/race car and then tell me how you feel about sim racing. You'll still love it, but you'll be off to the classifieds to see how much you can sell a kidney for.

Cant remember the last time I had a cuppa in my race car, yet sim racing was only last night, and with some biscuits too!

 

[Jericho Wilyan]

but the point is between sim racing and real racing is the feeling. how you feel your car on track and how big your balls is when you're driving so fast and save without killing anyone else or crashing into something.

i think sim racing is really help full in the modern age especially for young inexpericed drivers, i also been doing sim racing for years, GT6, Simraceway and everything. it is quite helpfull when i drive a real car

 

[Georg Winter]

But the point is: either you have balls or you have them not. Not every Sim Racer will be fast but the ones with balls will be. For example I`m totally used to speeds above 250kph. Guys from other Countrys with speed limits would probably start to scream.

But I think that Sim Racing help you a lot to get this "sense" of Racing. Sure. the first trys in real life would be probably not that good. but at the moment when you remember what you learned at sim racing and when you`re able to swallow your fear. Than your learning curve will be much much faster than without sim racing experience.

 

[Dan Allen]

But the point is: either you have balls or you have them not. Not every Sim Racer will be fast but the ones with balls will be. For example I`m totally used to speeds above 250kph. Guys from other Countrys with speed limits would probably start to scream.

But I think that Sim Racing help you a lot to get this "sense" of Racing. Sure. the first trys in real life would be probably not that good. but at the moment when you remember what you learned at sim racing and when you`re able to swallow your fear. Than your learning curve will be much much faster than without sim racing experience.

I find it hard to tell if I'm brave enough myself. I can push my Ka to it's limit (which isn't very high at all btw - 1.3L, straight 4 motor I believe, top speed 91 MPH apparently). I would like to *think* I could handle myself in something more powerful, whether I actually could I don't know. I had an opportunity to drive an Audi R8 once, but rather stupidly turned it down :'(

 

[Jericho Wilyan]

I find it hard to tell if I'm brave enough myself. I can push my Ka to it's limit (which isn't very high at all btw - 1.3L, straight 4 motor I believe). I would like to *think* I could handle myself in something more powerful, whether I actually could I don't know. I had an opportunity to drive an Audi R8 once, but rather stupidly turned it down :'(

true, i have a Mercedes - Benz C240 and when i drive it at 120kph i feel not brave enough, there's a sense that i would crash if i drive this car too fast haha

*still a rookie and will got a driving licence next week

 

[Dan Allen]

true, i have a Mercedes - Benz C240 and when i drive it at 120kph i feel not brave enough, there's a sense that i would crash if i drive this car too fast haha

*still a rookie and will got a driving licence next week

120 kph, what's that in MPH?

EDIT: 74 miles per hour... You'll get there Are you talking race license or road license?

Either way, take it slow and DON'T drive beyond *your* limits! As a new driver, your limits are very likely to be much lower than the limits of the worst car on the market. Don't try and "overdrive" the car, try to relax and above all, enjoy it! Speed and confidence will come in time

 

[Jericho Wilyan]

No, Indonesia use metric system so its KPH

 

[Dan Allen]

No, Indonesia use metric system so its KPH

I updated last post, I was talking about conversion

 

[Jericho Wilyan]

I updated last post, I was talking about conversion

right yeah thanks mate! since im 17 today, its still a road licence!

yeah im afraid of crashing my own car my father also said becareful with that, just drive safe is enough. he was a former Group N driver i think it was in 70s or 80s

 

[assettonoob]

If you take a random sample of sim racers and non sim racers, I think a similar number in both groups would be able to race a real car at a similar skill level. The transferable skills are easy to teach, but you can't teach someone how to feel the weight and rotation.
There are already enough very skilled drivers out there who went broke or gave up trying to get to the top.
In many ways it's like the entertainment industry. Many talented people but a small percentage get a chance at steady paid work, and fewer make a career out of it.
Games like GT6 give the illusion that the 'Academy' process is all about skill, but it's about luck really.
Look at it the other way: How many really good real life racers are really good sim racers?
It's just a hobby for people that wish they were real racing drivers. I'm one of those people.