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Butt Kicker died again.... What to replace it with. Help please :)

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by bdigital, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Quick update. The ADX Maximus and cabling has arrived, all except for the 2x Neutrik NL2FX Speakon Cable Connector 2-pole.

    Can I just check with you @DM77 that you are suggesting I use the banana plugs for the ADX end, leaving the other end for the Speakon connectors in to the amp? I think that's right! I have wired up 2x banana plugs to one of the ADX for now, and will wait for the speakon to arrive before finishing the amp end of the cable.

    After that its just a case of learning how to configure the amp correctly.

    I decided to go for 1x ADX per channel for now, and will learn with that setup before deciding if I want to expand it.
     
  2. DM77

    DM77
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    Sounds good :) yep, just use bananna plugs at the ADX end and use the Speakon connectors at the amp end. Also be aware one side of the cable will have a ridge, or some sort of line or colour code so you can identify the positive and negative side.
     
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  3. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Great thanks. Yes i spotted the white line on one side of the cables, i am presuming i can use either side for positive and negative, as long as i keep it the same on the other end!

    Thanks for the help, i was suprised at the size (assumed they were smaller) and the quality feel of the ADX. Cant wait to give them a try
     
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  4. DM77

    DM77
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    No worries :)

    Yeah you can use any side for positive/negative on the cable. The Speakon connectors will have the terminals labeled with a + and - as well inside.

    The ADX units are really hefty, great build quality.
     
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  5. bdigital

    bdigital

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    They sure are! @DM77

    Any tips for how to set the amp up? I want one ADX per channel. Also, is there a certain way around the XLR (red/black) connectors need to be? I cant work it out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  6. DM77

    DM77
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    Sorry, wall of text incoming :)

    Wiring & Connectors:

    Just make sure the positive and negatives you use in the speakon connector are the same positive and negatives you use on the other end of the cable for the bananna plugs going into the ADX.

    I usually use Red as positive from my hifi days, so if you have the colour coded or ridged half of the speaker cable screwed into the positive connector inside the speakon connector, make sure you put the red colour coded bananna plug on that side of the speaker cable too, and plug that red colour coded bananna plug into the red colour coded socket of the ADX.

    The reason for this is to ensure the speaker connected via that speaker cable is "in phase". If you somehow wire it wrong up you can just swap the coloured sheathes of the bananna plugs to correct the error, and plug them back into the ADX the correct way round.

    The red/black colour XLR sockets are the same sort of thing. One XLR is channel A, and one is channel B. Channel B on my amp is for the ADX on my pedals, and A is the ADX on the back of my seat. If you get them mixed up, just swap the XLR sockets round the other way.


    ADX and Frequency Behaviour:

    You will find that both ADX will behave a bit differently when you mount them on your rig, and different frequencies may feel weak, others strong, and some (mainly around 40hz) may be strong enough to almost shake your rig to bits and shake the teeth out of your skull if the volume is strong enough! Trust me, I almost code-browned my chair when I tried 40hz with a test tone generator :-(

    The great thing about the Behringer amp is that you can alter the gain (input volume) independently for each channel using the dials on the front of the amp, but you can also use the DSP function to cut out frequencies above 150hz completely (a low-pass filter to let only the useful lower frequencies through) to stop the ADX singing along to whatever audio you might put through them, but you can use Parametric EQ to tone down the db level (volume) the 40hz frequency area to stop them being quite so violent.

    The ADX are rated from 20hz to 100hz, and 40hz seems to be their strongest point. 10hz signals will feel weak, 20hz will feel a bit more "there", 30hz is stronger and maybe a bit buzzy, 40hz is absolutely crazy, 50hz is a bit less crazy, and they get less strong as you get closer to 100hz. Anything above 100hz won't really register much.

    It will take a bit of messing about with the amp functions to get used to what does what, and some googling to find out what certain terms mean. You may also want to look at isolating parts of your rig that may vibrate a lot and cause unwanted noise, pings, reverberations or just outright shaking.


    Isolating Your Rig:

    This is important, but not very obvious. Constant vibrations will cause certain issues. Tactile feedback is a noisy hobby, and things generally don't like to be shaken constantly for prolonged periods of time.

    Anything that gets loose will need some regular tightening up. You may want to order some thin rubber and neoprene off ebay to dampen vibrations in certain areas of your rig.

    On my GT OMEGA Art chassis I put some 1mm thick neoprene between the support arms, and the wheel support tray to stop my G920 wheel housing resonating, the noise was annoying as hell. The G920 pedals also resonated at certain frequencies.

    I put some 6mm adhesive backed neoprene between the seat support and the seat itself to stop the ADX energy leaking out of the seat and into the rig. I also got some impact resistant feet designed to stop washing machines skipping across the kitchen floor, and put them under the castors under my rig to isolate it from the rest of the room.

    I also got some acrylic washers and put them between the nuts and bolts holding the wheel tray to the support arms.

    I got some thick rubber, cut into squares, carved a hole out of the center with a stanley blade, and used them like washers for the bolts securing the seat support base to the horizontal struts in the chassis base, again to isolate the rig from the room and keep as much ADX energy in the seat structure as possible.

    If vibrations leak into the floor it's energy your feet and seat don't get to feel. And it annoys the neighbours or family in other rooms.

    Your rig may well behave completely different to mine due to different construction, materials and the equipment you have mounted on it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  7. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Thank you @DM77 that's really helpful. Ive got 1x ADX wired up, and running. Ive done a quick test and first impressions compared to the BK Gamer is that its quite tame but 'accurate' feeling. But that's with everything stock out of the box.

    The amp is on Dual Mono mode (I am assuming this is right, and will also be needed for I wire up the 2nd ADX)

    - Should I set the peak limiter, or delay to anything? They are on zero
    - I had to turn the dial up to almost max on the amp to really get feel from the shaker. Don't think this is right
    - High and Low pass are set to default (30hz high, 200hz low).

    I'm going to have to read your response a few times I think :) !!
     
  8. DM77

    DM77
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    I set the amp to dual mono, which means the signal to each channel is completely discrete and separate, so signals going to Channel A will not affect or cross over into Channel B, and vice-versa. I set each channel to 50watts peak limit, 4ohms impedence.

    I have both front dials set around 1pm. I set the channels in the DSP software to -3db output.

    The seat mounted ADX felt a little low-powered when I had it mounted under the seat. It was stronger mounted at the back of the seat, and after I isolated parts of my rig. If you use SSW software you can also use the strength sliders as necessary to gain more feedback.

    I would let everything under 150hz through, and block off everything above 150hz.

    My amp settings:

    High Pass = Off
    Low Pass = 185hz (I later reduced this down to 150hz) Use the Butterworth curve at the max dbfor a sharp cutoff rather than a gentle sloped cutoff. If you alter the Gain dial up or down you alter the volume output from the amp. Setting the gain to a +db setting requires more power from the amp, and results in stronger tactile feedback. Just be aware that increasing the gain by 3db requires a lot more power. I can't recall the maths, but each additional octave requires 1.5x more power? Someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong. Basically, dont jack up the Gain from 0db to +10 db or your amp will possibly keel over and melt.

    [​IMG]

    Channel B, negative db set using Parametric EQ to stop certain frequencies reverberating through my pedal mounted ADX
    [​IMG]

    Channel A, to stop the seat mounted ADX going crazy at 40hz, using a negative db parametric EQ filter. Note the Quality dials are set at max, which means the frequency band affected by the DB reduction is quite narrow. Decreasing the Quality makes the db level change cover a fatter band of frequencies.
    [​IMG]

    Note the highlighted number 4 profile below. You can load and retrieve separate profiles to suit certain sims or individual vehicle preferences. This way you can experiment safely and not lose your basic settings.
    [​IMG]

    Set the impedence of the ADX here to 4ohm. If you enter 20 in the Vp box it sets the peak wattage at 50, which is in the documentation as the maximum to feed the ADX.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  9. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Wow, thank you @DM77 that is so helpful, I really appreciate you taking the time to screenshot it!

    Ive copied your settings for now, to get me a base setting that I can work from. I still find myself needing to turn the volume dial on the amp up around 7-8 to get the volume of feedback I want.

    I have a couple of questions to help me understand a few things if that's ok:-

    - Is turning the volume dial on the amp (on the actual amp, not the software) the same as using 'Gain' within the software? - I'm wary of using it but would love to turn it up.
    - There are LED indicators on the amp that flash to show the usage while I'm driving. If I keep the volume below 7 then it never reaches the top/goes red. But I would like to know if its ok to have it reach the top/go red? Is that a problem?
    - Whenever I open the amp software, it doesn't show 4 Ohm, I have to select it each time despite saving the settings (I think its still set at 4, but just doesn't show it)
    - Whenever I type specific figures in to the fields on the software it just changes them! For example if I try to put 20.0 Vp in, it changes it to 19.9

    Hope the above is clear! Thanks again for all of the help