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Butt Kicker died again.... What to replace it with. Help please :)

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by bdigital, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Hi all,

    My Butt Kicker Gamer 2 went pop, (which is the 2nd one that died of the same issue). I replaced the fuse, and it powers on, however it no longer runs the shaker and I don't trust it anymore! (they were both 2nd hand and I never ran them very hard so I am assuming that they are either prone to this, or ive been unlucky).

    Before I go an buy another one for £180, I am considering going for a multi transducer setup using the LFEs, but I have no idea where to start!

    Could anyone help list what I would need in terms of amp and transducers etc? Also happy to listen to other options! Any help appreciated, thank you

    EDIT: I have an Obutto Ozone cockpit
     
  2. DM77

    DM77
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    This forum thread has a lot of good info, and is the one I kept returning to, and based my initial buying decisions on:. http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/buttkicker-setup-advice.132153/

    I started looking into Buttkickers early October this year after I got a sim chassis from the GT Omega guys.
    I never used BK gear before, but I read the forum threads here for 10 solid days, did a lot of googling and decided to get a cheap SML SA power amp off Amazon and a pair of ADX Maximum bass transducers. The ADX are £80 each and the amp was £100.

    Long story short, I settled with mounting one ADX on the pedals, one on the bottom of the seat, both controled by SimShakerWheels. Unfortunately the amp had a faulty channel which would only work when the amp was mounted on it's side or upside-down. After getting everything running for a few days I returned the amp for a refund, and got a Behringer iNuke DSP1000 amp instead for £177. It's way more powerful, you can control each tactile transducer with individual gain, and there is DSP software so you can tame any frequencies which are too fierce for your rig, or bumb up frequencies which need additional power. This way you can tailor your tactile perfectly without just resorting to altering a volume control to cure one problem, and gaining/losing power elsewhere in the other frequencies and causing another problem.

    So far I love the setup, the ADX are powerful and are rated from 20 to 100hz and are 4ohms impedence. I've screwed the pedal ADX into a wooden board beneath my pedal plate, and the seat ADX is attached to the back of the seat on my GT Omega Art using cable ties, and works perfectly.

    Here are links to the cables, sockets and hardware. Even if you are only thinking of using a single transducer right now I would still recommend the Behringer amp. The SML SA amp I used would have been OK if it wasn't faulty, but it wouldn't have given me the ability to push up the transducer power via the volume, and tame the 40hz frequency bump which was strong enough to rattle my eyeballs and shake my mouse off the wheel plate on my GT Omega.

    ADX Maximus
    http://shakercentre.co.uk/aspbite/p...D=141&content=adx_maximus_tactile_bass_shaker

    SML SA cheaper amp:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMSL-SA-98E-Amplifier-TDA7498E-Digital/dp/B00JESRNKO?tag=racedep-21

    Behringer iNuke NUDSP1000 - alternative amp, more powerful and much more versatile/configurable
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-...073&sr=8-1&keywords=behringer+inuke+nu1000dsp

    Speaker cable to run from the amp to the ADX Maximus
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Speaker-...eywords=16+gauge+speaker+cable&tag=racedep-21

    3.5mm stereo cable from your sound card output, into the stereo XLR inputs in the back of the DSP1000 amp
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/rhinocable...8&qid=1511896254&sr=1-5&keywords=3.5mm+to+xlr

    2x Neutrik NL2FX Speakon Cable Connector 2-pole - to terminate the speaker cable ends going into the back of the NUDPS1000 amp:
    https://www.musicstore.de/en_GB/GBP/Neutrik-NL2FX-Speakon-Cable-Connector-2-pole/art-ACC0005389-000


    If you go for the SML SA amp instead you just need this cable from your sound card:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Spl...1897565&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm+to+stereo+phono

    And 4 of these "bananna plugs" to terminate both ends of the speaker cable, instead of using the Neutrik Speakon connectors:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-Eas...&qid=1511897679&sr=1-1&keywords=bananna+plugs
     
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  3. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Wow thank you for the really helpful and detailed reply! I will read up on as much as I can. I like the sound of your setup, because it will probably give me more accurate feedback than a single buttkicker, and I can hopefully add more transducers as time goes on.

    I would go for the iNuke amp, but would I need another one if I wanted to add a 3rd and 4th transducer down the line?

    Oh and another question, presumably the actual buttkicker (gamer 2) transducer is still working and its only the amp that's died, so could I use the iNuke amp for that? I still have both of them lol
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  4. DM77

    DM77
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    No worries :)

    Yeah, if you want to expand your setup down the line you can get another amp and just run another 3.5mm cable from the other analogue output from your sound card. Some guys have 3 amps to run all 6 available channels for all 4 wheels, and a pair of tactiles on the seat.

    You can also run the ADX Maximus in series, so you can run 2 from just 1 channel on the amp. The documents on the ADX page I linked show how to wire them up, but then you are probably working the amp harder. I'm sure the amp provides around 200watts real-world power, and the ADX take 50 watts each, so it may not be too much of a stretch, and Mr Latte who is the resident guru for audio tactile made that recommendation to me when I was wondering how to improve the seat tactile on my rig and run 3 ADX instead of just 2.

    If the BK amp died and it just connects to the buttkicker via normal speaker wire, you probably could just use the Behringer to power it instead.
     
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  5. bdigital

    bdigital

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    That's great thank you. A couple of questions that I have, ( I am going to research as much as possible tonight/tomorrow)

    - What specs am I looking for to confirm if the Gamer 2 shaker will run ok with the iNuke amp?
    - What is the advantage of running the 2 ADX in series? Does that mean you could run 3 in total from the one amp?

    Thanks again....off to read :)
     
  6. DM77

    DM77
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    The Behringer amp can be configured to run into different configurations, so you can tell it to limit the power to 50 watts into 8 ohms, or 100 watts into 4 ohms etc... The BK Gamer 2 specs are:

    ButtKicker® Gamer transducer
    Dimensions: 6.125" W x 4.875" L x 4.375" H
    Frequency Response: 5-200 Hz
    Weight: 4.5 lbs. / 2 kgs.
    Piston Weight 6 oz.
    Nominal Impedance: 2 Ohm
    Power Handling: 75 watt min. / 250 watt max.

    Taken from the Behringer info page: http://www.music-group.com/Categori...lifiers/Portable-Amplifiers/NU1000DSP/p/P0AEJ

    Delivers 2 x 500 Watts into 2 Ohms; 2 x 300 Watts into 4 Ohms; 1000 Watts into 4 Ohms (bridge mode) - so it should work fine.

    The advantage of running the ADX in series should be that you can run more than 2 from the same amp, but I don't know yet what settings you would have to use.

    I imagine running 3x ADX you would end up with 8 ohms on one channel, requiring something like 100 watts to push 2x ADX on Channel A, and 4 ohms 50 watts on Channel B for the 3rd ADX for example, but I could be wrong.
     
  7. Richard Hessels

    Richard Hessels
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    It's not the energy going in the buttkicker that matters, but how much the amplifier can cope with the energy that returns.
    I fried 2 amplifiers before that should be strong enough theoretically. A original buttkicker amp. Than a heavy Hifi Amp. They both got smelly and smoky after an hour.
    Than i got relative cheap a mosfet PA amplifier, this thing never has any difficulty getting 4 shakers working out.
    Comes with forced cooling.
    When it should overload you see flashing lights being constantly on or it just shuts down till it's save to operate again.
    Something like this should be able to let the shakers run at full spec.
    https://www.thomann.de/nl/the_tamp_e4_250.htm
     
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  8. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Hi, guys, just to jump in and say....

    Buttkickers supposed wattage ratings for the min required usage seem to be off or outdated.
    Behringer wattage ratings are also not accurate (like many brands/models) and the amps do not deliver (constantly) the output stated. I believe the iNuke 1000 model delivers in the 200W region and not 300+ per channel. I seen a video of one bench tested on Youtube a while ago.

    Buttkicker Claims the largest BK-LFE needs a minimum of 300 watts, yet an iNuke DSP 1000 will power 2 of them and I can state that I have used on my rig and the amp dial only at 1-2PM position not its max at 5pm position.

    Perhaps it demonstrates that an important factor is the "quality of the bass" that the amp is outputting and here as many tactile and home cinema fans using iNuke DSP amps (powering large subwoofers) can attest to their abilities and feature-rich benefits.

    Money well spent if you get one.

    I've ran multiple amps in the last 10 years as a tactile hobbyist, the Behringer iNuke but get the DSP versions is in my view the best performance/features/price for the job. It has a loudish fan like a blow heater but this can be modded, that's about their only downside at the price.

    My plan is to end up with 5x iNuke DSP amps to power 10 tactile for my own rig.
    All using fan mod with Noctua replacement fan and specialist 4-2pin cable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  9. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Thank you Richard, appreciate the response and the helpful info.
    Thank you Mr Latte, very helpful. I have now purchased the Behringer NU1000DSP iNuke 1000w.

    My plan for now, is to try and get one (or two?) of my existing Butt Kicker Gamer 2 transducers to run from this amp. From there I will do more research and decide on what multi transducer setup I would like to go for (looking at the ADX or BK LFE).

    Do you think I will be able to run 2x Gamer 2 transducers? Maybe that is asking too much of the amp!

    Thanks again to everyone for the helpful contributions, I'm learning as fast as I can but your help makes its a lot quicker.

    Quick Edit: I know someone selling 4x of these puck transducers http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/tt25-16-puck-tactile-transducer-mini-bass-shaker.html
    The price seems cheap, but are they any good?
     
  10. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    The Gamer uses the same piston as the Mini Concert and Mini LFE models
    The BK LFE piston is possibly 5-10x heavier requiring much, much more wattage so yes you have absolutely no issues running the Gamer tactile models as the amp can also operate with 2ohm resistance they use.

    I am certain you have experienced the "piston pang" with the Gamer 2 amp and tactile unit.
    We covered on these forums how to reduce/remove this issue with iNuke DSP controls.
    Foam or rubber inserted into the unit is not the answer, controlling and dialing back the Hz that cause it is and you cant do that on a standard amp.

    We have quite a few threads on the forums here, done a few myself but I can't seem to link them in my sig or I would.

    Welcome back to tactile, several people will be glad to help you and please post of your own experiences in time as this also helps others in future.
     
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  11. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Fantasic thank you, I look forward to rigging up the 2x BK Gamers to the new amp.

    Not sure if you spotted it, but I know someone seeling 4x of these and wondered if they were worth considering:- http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/test-measurement.html

    They are a good price, but maybe under powered?
     
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  12. Richard Hessels

    Richard Hessels
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    Wow 10 transducers. Would have my fillings checked at the dentist before i would step in.
     
  13. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Ahh but it's what you use and how you control them that matters. :)
     
  14. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Ok, ive received the iNuke. Looks great, but ive realised just how out of my depth I am! I was hopeful (and naïve) thinking that the gamer 2 transducer would plug in and I would just have to configure the amp correctly (which would be hard enough for me!).

    However, it turns out the input ports on the back are different and I will have to do something to the Gamer 2 wiring to make it work :(
     
  15. DM77

    DM77
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    deleted post
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  16. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    I added some links to the start of the "General Tactile Discussion Thread"
    HERE
     
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  17. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Thank you very much. The guide looks really good. I think I am decided on going for 2x ADX Maximus on the iNuke 1000DSP, I will be using the shopping list kindly posted by@Dm77 so I just need to figure out how to a) wire them and b) mount them!!
     
  18. DM77

    DM77
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    I mounted my ADX originally screwed to wooden boards which were bolted to the underneath of my simrig seat and pedal plate. Then I changed the placement of the seat ADX to the back of the seat using cable ties through the harness gaps and removed the redundant wooden board.

    I also cable tied the pedal ADX and removed the wooden board when i fitted my new Clubsport pedals a few nights ago, and it initially feels like an improvement.

    I wired them with Speakon connectors at the amp end of the speaker cable, and banana plugs at the ADX end.
     
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  19. bdigital

    bdigital

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    Great thank you, very helpful. I have the wiring and the 2x ADX on the way :)

    Do you have any photos of how/where you mounted the ADX?