PC1 Build 291

[Nathan Robinson]

I just want to use this as a place to get the impressions from the people who have actually tried this latest build. I understand that some have issues with previous promises and you are unhappy with it. May this thread be just about build 291 and the thoughts of the guys who are trying it, instead of a flame war



All I can say right now is: Lotus 79 at the schleife. You really feel like you are clinging on to the edge of death with this thing. The one plus here is the speed perception of pcars, you feel like you are barreling 170 mph around the green hell. I dont know the track well so there are plenty of spots where I dont brake in time and destroy the car, but I can see myself doing this combo for a few hours.


EDIT: The FFB so far at Nords is actually pretty good. With FFB set to 100 on my wheel I can feel all the bumps and kerbs on the track through the wheel. The Lotus 78 is all i've run with so far, but it still has the "center sprung" feeling. If they could get it so that you can feel the weight transfer, this could be pretty good. Still a little too much grip under acceleration too. The 78 will break traction occasionally but that thing should punish you more for being heavy footed.

 

[DrJustice]

Nathan, have you tried editing the FFB tweak files? It may be possible to dial in more 'weight' by increasing the Mz component (aligning moment, with mechanical and pneumatic trail), or maybe the SoP (Seat of Pants) component (I haven't tried any tweaking recently). You can find full explanations and a discussion here. It's very interesting stuff. The tweaks we do now should be viewed as experimental - things will probably be different once the new tyre model is let loose.

 

[Graham Byford]

Quite enjoying the new build, more so on a gamepad where I think the current level of physics suits it rather well, some of the cars drive very well on a pad although some need more setup options to improve them. I still think the cars are too compliant over high kerbs though and need more weight to them in general, also there is a lot of off track grip.

 

[Kevin Jay]

The Lotus 78 is all i've run with so far, but it still has the "center sprung" feeling. If they could get it so that you can feel the weight transfer, this could be pretty good. Still a little too much grip under acceleration too. The 78 will break traction occasionally but that thing should punish you more for being heavy footed.

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. Why do you think it should be possible to feel weight transfer in a sim? Are you expecting FFB to give you that feeling? What RL car transmits weight transfer cues through the steering wheel? Weight transfer in a real car is "felt" when your body presses against the seatbelt under braking. You can also visually detect the dipping of the nose. The steering wheel doesn't come into play in regards to weight transfer cues back to the driver. I'm curious about what exactly you are expecting.

2. What do you mean when you say that the car has the "center sprung" feeling.

3. In regards to the car having too much grip under acceleration. How do you know that?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

1. Why do you think it should be possible to feel weight transfer in a sim? Are you expecting FFB to give you that feeling? What RL car transmits weight transfer cues through the steering wheel?

Yo, it's a simulation on consumer grade equipment, and for some time now, the established sims have chosen certain FFB values, works for me!!

 

[Peter]

It's useless talking about FFB at this state of the game. The physics and FFB are just placeholders because the NTM is ready in 2 month maybe.

@Graham Byford is right about the gamepad.

And dear members please only discus the positive outside WMD.

 

[Senad Subasic]

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. Why do you think it should be possible to feel weight transfer in a sim? Are you expecting FFB to give you that feeling? What RL car transmits weight transfer cues through the steering wheel? Weight transfer in a real car is "felt" when your body presses against the seatbelt under braking. You can also visually detect the dipping of the nose. The steering wheel doesn't come into play in regards to weight transfer cues back to the driver. I'm curious about what exactly you are expecting.

What office chair transmits weight transfer? That's what Force Feedback is for, to give you clues about the stuff you can't experience outside of a car.

2. What do you mean when you say that the car has the "center sprung" feeling.

I belive they mean the car rotating around a fixed center point, rather than having four separate wheels.

See here for a good explanation: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/reaction-to-the-newer-builds.52765/page-4#post-1193627
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/reaction-to-the-newer-builds.52765/page-4#post-1193669

 

[Nathan Robinson]

And dear members please only discus the positive outside WMD.

Why do you say that? I think we can talk about negatives in here as well. Or are you being a smart ass

 

[Nathan Robinson]

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. Why do you think it should be possible to feel weight transfer in a sim? Are you expecting FFB to give you that feeling? What RL car transmits weight transfer cues through the steering wheel? Weight transfer in a real car is "felt" when your body presses against the seatbelt under braking. You can also visually detect the dipping of the nose. The steering wheel doesn't come into play in regards to weight transfer cues back to the driver. I'm curious about what exactly you are expecting.

2. What do you mean when you say that the car has the "center sprung" feeling.

3. In regards to the car having too much grip under acceleration. How do you know that?

1. I dont think I said anywhere that I feel it in the wheel. When you drive a lot of sims, which I have, after a while they develop a certain feeling. Maybe its visual, maybe it's in the braking, but I can feel a difference in the way a car with softer and stiffer springs, rolls through a corner. Every car in pcars, to me, feels like they all have the same super stiff suspension and chassis underneath.

2. It feels like it rotates on a ball in the middle instead of independantly. I wish I could describe it better and this could be the problem of getting it explained to the dev's.

3. You are absolutely right here. I have no clue how hard those 78's should drive. I'm just used to having to drive powerful cars carefuly. Most sims I've run, with the higher hp rear wheel drive cars, you have to be very careful when coming out of the corner and getting on the gas. Too much and you would snap it around and surely hit the wall. Race over. Maybe this is not how it really is, but i think that it helps simulate the life or death feeling with these cars. We cant get all the feedback through the wheel so making the cars twitchy, makes you a little more nervous during the race, than cars that drive easy. I think this captures part of the natural nervousness these guys had when they really set down in these cars.
I watched this onboard lap with the lotus and andretti. Either this looks easy to drive or andretti was soo good he just made it look easy. There is one little spot at the end though where you can see it snap on him. You gotta have nerves of steel.

 

[Kazumi]

1. I dont think I said anywhere that I feel it in the wheel. When you drive a lot of sims, which I have, after a while they develop a certain feeling. Maybe its visual, maybe it's in the braking, but I can feel a difference in the way a car with softer and stiffer springs, rolls through a corner. Every car in pcars, to me, feels like they all have the same super stiff suspension and chassis underneath.

2. (...)

Could 1 directly lead to 2 in your opinion?

 

[Rob Every]

Come on man, comparing any sim to a video where the guy is trying about 50% is poretty pointless! The whole point of most of these videos was to try and give people an imjpression of close racing and packed grids!!

 

[Nathan Robinson]

Come on man, comparing any sim to a video where the guy is trying about 50% is poretty pointless! The whole point of most of these videos was to try and give people an imjpression of close racing and packed grids!!

hm..., I would say he's driving a lot more than 50% once the race starts. I know he's just toying around in the beginning, letting people in, but they get serious after a few minutes.


edit: It does appear that they are just taking it easy for most of the video, i must have been drinking the day I first watched it. It still seems like it would be more of a handful, even at the reduced pace they were going.

 

[Andy_J]

That video is just a video of a practice session by the looks of it. Great to watch though.

I have just been testing the same version of that Car in Pcars at Derby GP and the helmet cam and general feeling is getting better. I am starting to warm to it. It will be great if they can sort out the damage models better though. I remember GP4 with engine fires, wheels flying through the air and general realistic crash physics. If PCars can simulate that it will be a bonus.

 

[Henk van der Meulen]

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. Why do you think it should be possible to feel weight transfer in a sim? Are you expecting FFB to give you that feeling? What RL car transmits weight transfer cues through the steering wheel? Weight transfer in a real car is "felt" when your body presses against the seatbelt under braking. You can also visually detect the dipping of the nose. The steering wheel doesn't come into play in regards to weight transfer cues back to the driver. I'm curious about what exactly you are expecting.

Well to answer your question.

Weight transfer can in most instances also be felt in the steering wheel.
usually this gets overwhelmed by the other forces you're experiencing as you describe.
A tyre deforming on the road surface will give information about this, coupled with the irregularitys of the road surface makes it possible to detect the effects of weight transfer in your steering wheel.

Try it.
Prerferably in a car without assisted steering.
And rose jointed would be a bonus

The feel of the road is what's missing in most sims.
Realfeel gives you a lot of what the car body is doing, but doenst really convey what the tyres are doing very well.

So most sim may be reasonably close from an engineering standpoint (although that's also debatable), they have aloooong way to go from a human interface standpoint.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 BMW's for the latest build.

 

[Tom]

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 BMW's for the latest build.

FFB is broken, tho.

 

[Chronus]

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 BMW's for the latest build.

Request, David: tell us how they feel, will ya?

 

[Flawl3ssVctry]

FFB in build 296 got significantly 'different' in mostly a good direction. Not perfect but probably the best G27 experience SMS has ever produced so far. Still room to improve (and upcoming tyre model) but it all feels a hell of a lot different/better now.

 

[Peter]

Request, David: tell us how they feel, will ya?

The BMW's are the best cars in the game but miles behind race07's BMW's.

They need the new tyre model and they ( we ) need it very quick.