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Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Ivo Simons, Jul 26, 2010.
After watching Top Gear, thought it would be a good discussion.
I can´t vote but I´ve heard marvellous stuff about Jim Clark... anyway I would go with Prost possibly.
I can´t vote because I see the list is not complete and I know a couple of drivers with better numbers and class that the 80% of the ones in the list (I know F1 history is looong and there is no space for all ).
The fact of being a SIR makes you a better driver?
Michael Schumacher, of course.
Senna for me big time. Also my favorite.
Got a big poster when i was 5 from my parents. Then in 1992 i went to Spa as a little boy and took the poster with me.
Got a autograph from him on that poster while sitting on the shoulders of my Dad pressing the poster againts Senna his nose to get a autograph.
Still have it hanging here on the wall. Never gonna sell it for what price.
Where is Chandok ? He could bring a HRT car to finish, he deserves it!!!
Great history Ivo.
Senna. He would have taken so many more titles if that tragedy didn't happen to him! Good poll (lets put it up the frontpage )
for me it has to be Jim Clark with 25 wins from 72 Grands prix starts which is around 35%
Compared to Ayrton Senna 41 wins from 161 Grands prix starts which is around 25%
more stats from Clark
Races 73 (72 starts)
Championships 2 (1963, 1965)
Career points 255 (274)
Pole positions 33
Fastest laps 28
so while Senna was a great driver is record is a good bit behind Clark
Theres no doubting the talent that Senna had.....as previously posted he would have taken more wins/titles had the tragedy not taken place.....one can only imagine Senna and Schumacher going head to head......
For us Kiwi's though theres only one great in Formula One (ok make that two) One still has his name present in todays circus - ohh i mean circuit! pretty obvious Bruce McLaren rates for us - but he is possibly just beaten at the post by "The Bear" Denny Hulme. Our first and ONLY Formula One World Champion!
With 7WDC,91wins,68 blah blah blah,statistically he is ahead of everybody by a whole lap...Michael Shumacher hands down(for me)
I don't think comparing stats is appropriate here. Both Senna and Clark were killed while they were still racing. Had the tragedies not occurred the stats would be different, though impossible to predict.
I voted Senna. There's no doubt in my mind that had he not been killed, Schumacher would not be holding all the records today.
Favorite driver though, Mansell. Red 5 was my idol.
Interesting fact, he was the first former Formula 1 champion to die of natural causes... While racing at 187mph. Way to go.
Stats are of limited use.
Racing in the 50s and 60s was just so different to today. Today's F1 championship has 19 races. In 1964 there were 18 F1 races, but only 10 counted for the World Championship. Modern F1 cars are also far more reliable than they used to be, making it easier to chalk up more wins.
F1 drivers had to be very versatile back then. Jimmy Clark won the 1964 British Saloon Car Championship, he raced in F2, sports cars, GTs and USAC (Indycar).
This is such a difficult question. My head says Sir Jackie Stewart because I love his smoothness, his lack of drama, the way he balanced a car and "drove" it is still fascinating (for me) to watch. Ayrton Senna is, no doubt, a master in the era he raced in, taking a car and driving it beyond of what is was probably capable of. And finally, Nigel Mansell, my childhood hero, wheel to wheel (literally) with Senna, 27 seconds down on Nelson Piquet at Silverstone and that overtake down the Hangar Straight - happy days. Has to be Sir Jackie though, he just drives beautifully.
Michael Schumacher isn't a don't think, it's just because he had the best car by miles, I mean look at Button last year - he's no driving god.
I haven't been on the earth long enough to see the likes of Senna, Prost, Lauda, Hill, Moss, Fangio, Ascari etcetcetc. but from what I have seen it can't be Senna, just for his sheer recklessness. I driver has to be fair and pass people by sheer skill, not by barging there way through,but on talent alone, it has to be Senna, followed by Prost then Fangio
these are always impossible polls as subjectivity will trump objectivity - emotion vs stats etc. Senna and Clark where truly beyond their peers in sheer skill and Gilles was always going flat out, so they tend to come out above the others. Lauda, Piquet and Prost are all multiple champs yet tend to get overlooked - ok, maybe not Prost - as they went about their racing with less passion and more race craft I think.
IMO Senna have been clearly proven to be ONE OF the best drivers of all time. But I think that Mika Hekkinen have been a very good driver too. He didn't have a good car flr a long time before he got to Mclaren and became 2 times world Champion in a row.
TBH I dont think Schumacher is that great driver because he have lost the tittle from drivers such as Damon Hill,Villeneuve, Hekkinen and Alonso. Plus I think Barrichelo could have been a World Champion if Ferrari didn't tell him to back of once he closed up to Schumacher. Well he had the quickest car from the start. But I think a driver that can tell his enginiers what feels odd about the car and change it is the driver that will have the best car. Like this years Renault, thanks to Kubica the team has a proper car. (I mean that Kubica's feedback most have been very good to built a great car) But now that Schumacher races in MErcedes-Benz I dont see eny improvments on the car or his performense. Instead I see him qualifeing in a worse posision for evry race.
If I could have a multipule choose I would pick Senna, Jim Clark, Hekkinen and Nigal Mansell.
These polls never really achieve their goal of showing who really is the best driver of all time, in my opinion. The main reason being because Drivers, cars and times change...
Think about it. Clark and Moss, and their contemporaries such as Brabham, raced in a time when gentlemanly behaviour and a good race were most important. The cars were dogs to drive by today's standards, and the possibility of dying while racing was almost a given.
Drivers like Stewart, Fittipaldi and Lauda were at the height of their powers in the age of experimentation and innovation, when slick tyres, downforce and turbocharging were just being discovered and exploited. Sponsorship was coming into the equation too.
Piquet, Senna and Prost came to the fore when F1 was becoming a commercial entity, and the cars were at their most powerful and racy. Brilliant drivers though they were (I'd still be hard pressed to drive one of those 1000hp turbo cars in reality even if you paid me millions :tongue, part of the reason why I think they are revered so much is because they were more exposed to the public than anyone before them because of the sport's newfound commercial prowess.
Finally the drivers of today, including Hamilton, Alonso and Schumacher, are racing in a world of social media and the internet, where more people can discuss them and their inticate details than ever before. The cars are developed season in and season out, with improvements being made even during race weekends, a far cry from the early days when manufacturers would often use the same car model for years at a time.
Every driver, or group of drivers from a certain era, is different. The conditions under which they competed were very different, and so we see different sides of what it takes to truly be one of the greats. Therefore, in my eyes, there is no greatest F1 driver of all time, there never was, and there never will be.
My vote for goes for Schummi, but
Same here, even with Senna driving at that time, when Mansell wasn't in a race, it was just a boring GP.
Has to be Gilles Villeneuve for me. In terms of what the sport attracted he was against the grain. He didn't come from a wealthy background and the hard work and dedication he put in to get his 1st drive were amazing. He had a passion for motor racing that always shone through with his on the limit driving style. And like Senna and Clark, had he not died the potential was there to rewrite the record books. And with the help of Rene Arnoux he gave us arguably the greatest few laps of a Grand Prix ever.