Best DD Capable Cockpit in $800 or less Range?

[Rainman2020]

After having been bitten hard by the sim racing bug, i am building a computer + sim gear + VR in the $5K range at the moment. I will post the entire build on this site and ask for yall's critique when i finish picking all the pieces. I am finding this by far the best forum for sim racers (haven't checked out the iRacing forums yet though). I am in the USA (Dallas Tex-has)

The single component i am the most lost as to what to get is the cockpit itself.

I don't have a huge space to put the rig into. I plan to use VR exclusively, so i don't need space for a 3 monitor setup. I have 2 regular monitors on my computer desk, but the computer desk is 6 feet from where the cockpit will be. I figure i can still have a mouse/keyboard next to the cockpit if i get a 2nd wireless mouse/keyboard just for the cockpit. I may need to get a single (3rd) monitor just for the cockpit to have something right there that is other than VR. Can you live exclusively with VR and have the normal computer monitors 6 feet away?

Buying the following components in my current sim racing build:

Wheel = Accuforce V2 DD wheel ('only' 13nm), so need the cockpit to be sturdy enough to handle it.

Shifter = Fantatec H pattern shifter, and need a gearshift plate that is stable and doesn't move around easily (have seen many cockpits where that happens in youtube videos)

Pedals = CSL Elite with LC

As to the actual cockpit, it needs to be sturdy enough for the DD wheel, and with a sturdy shifter plate, AND it needs to be inexpensive as possible, as my budget is nearing max. Wanting the cockpit to meet the above AND be less than $800 total for the cockpit and and racing seat (if need to order one separately). I found a Summit Racing seat for $180 that looked really nice if i had to buy a separate seat, so i could get a seat for less than $200 USD.

Oh, AND it needs to be actually available to order (although i could live with several months+ of waiting for delivery if need be)

Tall order?

Note that i am working with Jeff Ford (FEG) and he mentioned the Sim-Lab GT1 Evo cockpit. It looks like you can get one without too long of a delay (although don't want to think about shipping cost from Europe right now), and if i got a seat from Summit Racing for $190, it would come close to the max limit of $800, would prolly go over it once you add in a single monitor attachment and a shifter plate attachment. But, can the Sim-Lab GT1 Evo cockpit support the Accuforce DD wheel and have a stable shifter plate?

Thanks, you guys are great, i really appreciate the help as i jump in the sim racing world.

Randy

 

[TedBrosby-]

I will take another look at the P1-X reviews. I have a 5x3 space to put the cockpit in (behind my recliners in my digital man-cave) and didn't want something super bulky, so that plus the extra $$$ caused me to not look very hard at it.

Randy

Not sure what you mean, they are just bolted outside for reinforcement, uprights stay in the same position.
Video on how they work

Ah I forgot the new GT1 Evo uprights are directly above the length bars, my mistake. I'll leave it up in shame in its original text as part of my repentance.
I still think there will be flex because the wheel will be attached nearly at the full length of the uprights which maximizes the lever arm.

The best way to reduce flex would be to add stability at the cantilever full length L using a "fixed end supported other" structural pattern. The best way to do this is with triangular support beams, the longest you can fit (as close to the full length of the beam as possible) to mimic the following structural diagram:

You can increase the required force for bending the uprights by a significant amount (beyond a human being's strength and beyond the full weight of a human + 10 DD motors). Of course I can't guarantee this will eliminate bending of the wheel deck itself.
So long story short, if you wanna guarantee you won't have bending, just buy a P1-X. I could probably engineer the fixed length support mechanics to make a GT1 Evo so stable you can put a Miata on top of the wheel deck and not flex it, but A) it'll cost more than the price difference of the P1-X to begin with and B) it won't be space saving anymore.

 

[diablo2112]

I triangulated my home-built 8040-based rig. It's as solid as an anvil. Not the slightest bit of detectable flex. I did this in 2 directions, see pics, works like a charm. And, I rather think it's all attractive and quite compact, not bulky at all.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Still don't understand what kind of forces warrants such a complex solution over simple T-plate which is similar to custom brackets approach sim-lab is using on P1-X, that is solid as a boulder.
And I have T-Plates like these on my weight lifting rack, which is subject to much higher forces than what 25Nm DD wheel can generate on the rig.
I am sure it works, as would a simpler solution.

 

[TedBrosby-]

Still don't understand what kind of forces warrants such a complex solution over simple T-plate which is similar to custom brackets approach sim-lab is using on P1-X, that is solid as a boulder.
And I have T-Plates like these on my weight lifting rack, which is subject to much higher forces than what 25Nm DD wheel can generate on the rig.
I am sure it works, as would a simpler solution.

It’s because the GT1 uprights are only 80x40 which means the amount of force required to cause bending is less. Your T plate doesn’t bend on the P1-X because the uprights for it are 160mm thick instead of 80mm, not just because of the plate. The plate helps, but nothing will help as much as increased resistance. It’s simple structural mechanics.

 

[diablo2112]

It's not the joints that flex, it's the extrusions themselves. The forces on these extrusions are bending moments. Your weight rack has forces mainly in compression, in line with the supports. Compressive loads are easily handled by having sufficient cross-sectional material area in an extrusion. Bending is way more complex, as the equations above note. It can be very taxing on even the strongest of materials and geometries. For this reason, mechanical triangulation is the best way to achieve rigidity in a structure, it's been used for thousands of years. (and in fact, what triangulation does is convert bending loads into compressive (and tensile) loads).

The forces on the upright extrusions and deck of a racing rig far exceed just the 25 Nm from the wheel. You can put incredible vertical bending moments on the wheel deck and supports by gripping the wheel from the seat. I can get the P1x wheel deck to slightly move on my buddies rig, for example. It doesn't on mine, the only flex I get is in the wheel rims themselves. That's the benefit of properly designed triangulation.

The setup (above) was cheaper than sourcing 40x160mm extrusion. 8040 is much easier to obtain and way cheaper here in the US. Use 4040 for the triangulation segments. As a bonus, it also weighs less. It's not complex at all. If you have an allen wrench, an 8mm tap, and a mitre saw, you can DIY a 8020 rig with ease.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

At least, I can get the P1x wheel deck to move on my buddies rig.

Front mount or wheel deck? I can't detect any movement on mine, can shake the whole rig, it's one solid structure. Horizontal wheel deck from what I've read can have slight movement in it, but it's not because of the way uprights are bolted to the frame.
It's innovative solution, but very uncommon perhaps because it's just overkill for most applications including most demanding DD setups.
And word of caution on "grabbing wheel from the seat", motor bearings are not designed to handle very high side load. GD warned users not to use super long extension or using wheel as a support when getting in and out of the seat because of the damage it might cause.

 

[diablo2112]

Front mount or wheel deck?

His is the flat (horizontal) deck. And yes, most of this flex is in the deck itself. If you'll note my design, the smaller triangulation was done to prevent precisely that kind of flex in my horizontal wheel deck. I prefer the horizontal decks, as it accomodates my existing blowers and button boxes.

And to be clear, on the horizontal P1x, it's a very small amount of movement, indeed. The P1x is an excellent bit of kit and what I recommend to someone who wants an off-the-shelf solution.

I do agree on taking care if torquing the motor bearings, for sure. I'm still on my original "small" MIGE, with an upgraded encoder (4.4M ppr) and SImucube 1 firmware. That motor is stout. Been running without incident for over 4 years now. The over-designed industrial nature of the original OSWs is still a feature, IMHO.

 

[TShrimp]

No idea, but this is not how typical not superhuman being handles 16Nm.

If the F-GT, in your opinion, would not handle a DD wheel like they state...Would there be a difference if someone used something like a Clubsport V2.5 (8nm) running at 100% vs purchasing an Accuforce (13nm) and running it at 62% (~8nm). 8nm is still good and allows someone someone with a lesser rig to get a DD and upgrade their rig at a later date. Or is there more to it then just the nm rating when handling these bases?

 

[Rainman2020]

Another question on getting a sim racing cockpit.

I have emailed both Simlab and Digital Motorsports asking for help on ordering either a Evo or a P1-X, but i am getting no response from them after about 3 days now.

What is the best way to talk to someone like them about what to order and how to order? Is there another site that is better to order from?

I do want to talk to them about ordering the right things for my situation/equipment also, i.e. not just wanting to submit a final order online.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Another question on getting a sim racing cockpit.

I have emailed both Simlab and Digital Motorsports asking for help on ordering either a Evo or a P1-X, but i am getting no response from them after about 3 days now.

What is the best way to talk to someone like them about what to order and how to order? Is there another site that is better to order from?

I do want to talk to them about ordering the right things for my situation/equipment also, i.e. not just wanting to submit a final order online.

Email is fine, just be patient. One of the reps is registered here.
Also read this on support response time.

 

[TShrimp]

Another question on getting a sim racing cockpit.

I have emailed both Simlab and Digital Motorsports asking for help on ordering either a Evo or a P1-X, but i am getting no response from them after about 3 days now.

What is the best way to talk to someone like them about what to order and how to order? Is there another site that is better to order from?

I do want to talk to them about ordering the right things for my situation/equipment also, i.e. not just wanting to submit a final order online.

For me customer service is very important. The fact that they have not responded to you would give me pause. If they are not responding to you now, will they respond if you have an issue? I admit, that is one thing I liked about Next Level Racing (I don't believe they have what you are looking for), they responded to 3 emails of mine, and each time within just hours of sending. I am a huge fan of good customer service, and run away from those who do not provide. I hope they respond soon, or you can find a cockpit that fits your needs from a source you can get in touch with.

Edit: Per @Andrew_WOT it looks like they have long lead times due to Covid-19. Sorry, I posted before I read his response. I have been waiting over a month now for responses from Fanatec myself.

 

[TedBrosby-]

I would exercise a little patience and forgiveness for their response time. Almost every company right now is slow to respond and even take orders. Especially Sim Lab. They actually aren’t taking orders right now and shut down the store page to rebuild their ordering system.
The only company that’s responding fast is Granite on their community page (Especially Mika and Phillip) and VRS if you tag them in a VRS related thread.
The only company you can even order from without much delay is Fanatec because they sell directly. But even they’re experiencing pains from the pandemic (still no announcement of Podium Pedals and no official driver to support podium endurance on CSW or CSL).
If you want a fast response I would consider tagging the Sim Lab company representative here or leaving a comment on their Facebook page. But honestly they will prioritize customers with orders in transit over you (and rightfully so, people have had issues with incomplete shipments or suppliers skimping on shipping).

 

[TedBrosby-]

Another question on getting a sim racing cockpit.

I have emailed both Simlab and Digital Motorsports asking for help on ordering either a Evo or a P1-X, but i am getting no response from them after about 3 days now.

What is the best way to talk to someone like them about what to order and how to order? Is there another site that is better to order from?

I do want to talk to them about ordering the right things for my situation/equipment also, i.e. not just wanting to submit a final order online.

I think you should ask here or in the Rig pics thread. If you wanna order from Sim Lab, you should just ask @Andrew_WOT or other Sim Lab owners. They will be able to tell you a lot more than Digital Motorsports who will most likely just read facts to you from the product page.
What exactly do you want to know?