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Avoiding incidents

Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Nicolai Nicholson, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. I have looked through the incidents at Suzuka, I have made a video and will comment on all of them. I only base my view on what I see on the server replay. This is not ment as an attack on those who in my view made mistake, the purpose is to help the group as a total think alike in various situations.

    Before I post the video and my comments; here is the general idea of safe racing in terms of making a pass:

    First of all, is the guy ahead likely to know that you are close behind and ready to make a move? Surprise attacks can be dangerous.

    Now, if you are about to make a pass and...
    ...go on the inside, you need to make a tight apex (racing line) and leave room for a car on your outside when you exit the turn (if needed).
    ...go on the outside, you need to leave room for your opponent at the apex, and when you exit the turn, do that as wide as possible (racing line).

    Likewize, if you are being passed...
    ...on the inside, leave room for him at the apex, and claim a minimum of room in the exit of the turn (racing line).
    ...on the outside, do a tight apex (racing line) and leave room on your outside when you exit (if needed).

    Obviously you should feel free to pull out of the fight at any time :)

    Now, here is the video, my comments will probably be made tomorrow.

    btw, I am not placing blame, I am pointing out what I think could have contributed towards avoiding the incident. I might point out things that an "innocent" part could have done differently, this does not mean I say he is at fault etc etc, you know what I mean :)

    ts136 - Eliezer vs. Kurt
    Eliezer finds himself with two cars on his right side forcing him to the left on the track, resulting in him overlapping Kurt's lane who is right ahead. At this point I think Eliezer should have pulled out of the fight, because he was in a very dangerous situation closing up on the braking zone.

    Kurt on his side should stay as close to the left edge of the track as he feels safe. He was quite close, but could perhaps even be closer? I was unsure if I was to mention this, because it is a tiny detail which I am unsure if is correct either way as they were approaching the turn in point. I just want to point out that in general the safest thing you can do if you have nobody on your outside is to claim a minimum of room, as to minimise the chance of getting caught up in somthing.

    ts137 - Peter vs. Bob
    It all happens a bit quickly, Peter and Bob is side by side, then Bob pulls away for a moment as they approach the turn, but Peter comes quickly back on the inside. At the same time Bob has somebody on his outside. If he is aware of Peter then he needs to make the turn leaving room on both sides, alternatively pulling out.

    Peter should probably have backed off when Bob pulled away the first time. If it wasn't for the fact that Bob needed to leave room on his outside I am guessing he would have left more room on his inside, alas...

    ts138 - Dave vs. Anthony I
    This type of rear ending is a typical 1st lap incident, caused by a chain reaction resulting in the car ahead suddenly going slower than expected. Lap one lives it's own life and a different type of racing is needed until the race stabilizes.

    I think this comes mostly with experience, how to drive safely in lap one, and it is hard to explain. However, I will try, and others please chip in with your views: You need to stay in the same rythm as the once ahead, and if they are still fighting over positions you need to be alert and ready to react at the first sign of something happening. For me it looks like Dave tries to go full speed and notice too late that the guys ahead are not doing the same, because they are going side by side into a turn.

    ts142 - Sean vs. Andy
    This is mostly an incident caused by the incident ahead, Sean moves to the right to avoid what is ahead and hits Andy. It could be said though, that Sean should have been aware of Andy on the inside and could have reacted according to that as well. But this might be raising the bar too high...? (expecting too much of a driver)

    ts147 - Dave vs. Anthony I
    Again, very similar to the first incident, 9 seconds earlier with the same victim (Mon Dieu!). This time it seems even more avoidable. You should be aware of Anthony being out of shape ahead. He is very likely to be below race pace as he is trying to regain race line. You should lift (the throttle) and approach the situation controlled. Perhaps you get a controlled pass out of it, perhaps you stay behind, and perhaps a sneaky bastard controlled passes you both as you stay carefull. Such is the life of lap one :) I know you are new, and I hope you can take constructive critisism, that's what makes us better.

    ts150 - Eliezer vs. Kurt
    I think you are too aggressive at the first lap Eliezer. Both the first incident and this one you push too hard. In this incident the race has not settled ahead of Kurt, there are plently cars going side by side, some are on the grass and a sudden drop in race pace is to be expected.

    Kurt could have considered going controlled (coasting?) on the inside of the car ahead insted of braking. He is likely to leave room for you as he just lost some time and would be unwise to head for the apex :) (and he doesn't).

    ts192 - Tom vs. Tim
    Tom should have pulled out of the attempt when he was not able to catch Tim before the turn. He quickly gained ground when Tim lost time and then stayed in his blind zone up until the time of turning in. You should ask yourself, does/should Tim know I am making an attempt on his inside? (and of course, am I far enough up his side). I think the answer to both qestions are no.

    Tim got probably too close to the car ahead and did not make a good turn in the first part of spoon (way off racing line) and probably lost half a second or so. This should automatically make him vary/alert of what is comming behind (at least on lap 1). I am not saying it was your fault, but it is always wise to leave room when one does not have control on what is behind.

    ts633 - Tim vs. Anthony M
    An almost pure racing incident. I assume Anthony M didn't crash on purpose. Tim didn't react with braking when crashed infront of him, but it all happened very quickly.

    ts1543 - Tim vs. Gaetano
    It is a very nice battle until Tim drops the inside and start sliding outwards and hits Gaetano. It should be said that Gaetano didn't leave him lots of room, but it would have been sufficient if Tim had stayed close to the white line. I think in this situation Tim should give his position back to Gaetano, because I do not think he would have outrun him if he had stayed tight.

    ts3864 - Tim vs. Valter
    When you make an attempt to pass on the inside, I think it is important that one manage to stay tight enough. For me it looks like Valter brakes a bit late but regains control, then spots Tim and is "forced" off the road. I would have given the position back in this situation.

    ts3870 - Nicolas vs. Tim
    Very similar to the situation 6 seconds earlier. If you make a move on the inside you need to make sure that you are able to make it tight and that you leave room in the exit. The darker rubber area is a good reference for this, as it symbolises the racing line. If you are inside this you are leaving room, Nicolas was on the outside.

    ts4006 - Nicolas vs. Tim
    It seems that Tim is focused on positioning his car considering that he has Nicolas on the outside. Predictable and correct behavior. Nicolas however does not seem to be focused on the position of his car, which should be to the extreme right :)

    ts48?? - Jim vs. Peter
    Although a small lag contributed I think this incident was avoidable. Peter should have stuck to the left side of the road instead of drifting towards the right. (I am now assuming he was aware of Jim behind wanting to make a pass.)

    Jim did come from a bit behind, but being the last chance to make a pass in the race I would expect Peter to consider the possibillity, so I don't think Jim did anything wrong as he moved to the far right of the track to avoid Peter.

    Most of the incidents are either caused by aggressive/unexperiensed driving on lap 1 or untidy passing/defending manuvers.

    Aggressive/unexperiensed driving on lap 1
    I think the best remedy for this is twofolded
    -That the once who commits this (Eliezer and Dave in this race) thinks about it and are ultra-focused on improving this for future races
    -That we use our practice starts well. Although they are good fun to do it provides us with valueable and unique practice on race starts. At Hockenheim I will make sure we have time for 3 practice starts that will last the whole first lap. Make it your mission to avoid incidents in all three practice starts, and then copy this for the real start.

    Untidy passing/defending manuvers
    Here I can only refere to what I wrote at the top of this post regarding leaving room and being tight etc etc. This also include driving predictable when approaching the turn. Are you on the inside or outside, be focused on this.

    It is extremely important for the survival of the league that we manage to have much less incidents than we have had the two last races. Many destroyed races means loss of motivation which again leads to loss of members which again is demotivation for the rest etc etc. I would like everybody in our league to send an e-mail to the Race Director where you let him know that you understand and agrees with the content of this post, alternatively what you disagree in (nothing wrong with that). But it is important that everybody responds, in other words sends an e-mail to the Race Director.

    ps: I myself made a very poor race at Suzuka, although I did not crash into anybody I think I made a poor contribution to the race. I will be very focused on improving greatly for the next race.
  2. Good video Nico, my incidents happened so fast... would be good if telemetry could be displayed showing the brake and accelerator position like in real F1 so at least it could show I tried to brake lol, my car felt good and I think I placed too much expectation on the drivers ahead that theirs would feel the same and have the same confidence in carrying the speed. A valuable lesson learnt for me, as much as it is hard to not let the thought of being overtaken by someone else or more still, causing a concertina effect on the drivers behind, so I definitely learnt something here! Many apologies again to Anthony!
  3. Jim Hawley

    Jim Hawley
    PrestoGP Veteran

    It's true, I did come from a long way back, I didn't brake a great deal (if any) later than on any other lap, I think Peter was struggling with worn tyres at the time, something which I did suspect having followed him for a while, therefore he braked quite early giving me the opportunity (or no choice?) to try and go past on the right, I had hit the brakes before I realisied I'd braked a lot later than Peter (if that make sense?) in that situation when your brake foot is already planted it's the only option

    As I said before I had no idea there had been contact until after the race, If I had known I would have waited for Peter on the s/f straight without question

    It's a shame for Peter to loose out on a podium, and I don't feel as thought I deserved one, it will show as such on the results page but in my mind I was 4th

  4. Nice review.

    You are correct about my incidents Nico. Although I do not believe that I was "closing the door" on Jim, I did attempt to make him think about it as I knew very well he was going to have a go. :) I thought I had left enought race track for Jim to slow down safely in but not pass me...

    You well deserved the podium Jim. :) I had no right being so far up the field. I struggled the entire race from both poor [no] preparation and that damn varying rev-limiting and varying car balance issue.
  5. Sean Greenlaw

    Sean Greenlaw
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Nice nico I never noticed this during race, it is a tuff 1 nobodys fault really, i think i keep pretty steady line around turn 1 and i have to be looking ahead 3 cars are close on track. I think that i only make very slight movement at point im straightening up and then putting power fully on. If i was andy id have just went slight slower at 2nd apex turn 1 just before contact and keep tighter line maybe get along side but probably filter in behind next left as i wouldnt be able to pass outside. If id knew andy was there i could have went to the left also leaving more room but maybe best to think at that point car ahead may not know exactly where i am.

    Starts of the race's my thoughts are to get ok start and filter in i dont mind to yield early at starts just to get 1st lap done its a long race and as soon as we get single file we are alot safer from incidents , i also think suzuka especially 1st sector people can take alot of different lines it also made it a extra difficult 1st lap.
  6. Hey Sean, lets just put this one under "racing incident" .
    Next race we 'll get it right :-D


  7. Thanks Nicolai, amazing work.
  8. Off-topic:

    I can see the WBRF3 on the grid. :D (The orange,blue,white Water Blue Racing Car)
  9. Still Off-topic:

    Where is Dave's skin? Still in the paint shop? :)
  10. Yeah I know! lol I've really been slacking in that department recently lol
    I've only held back from uploading because I havent done a suit or helmet design yet, been meaning to find a good enough template to work with like the ones I used to do the main skins with, which included specular layers etc in photoshop. And also, to save any possible complications with updating it again in the future regarding the updater which had also held me back from uploading :( But, I will endeavour to get it done asap with or without the final suit and/or the helmet too if needs be! :D

    Nice to see the interest tho, thanks Peter! :)

    EDIT: Just to add, I've also had a lot of work stuff happening recently and much "spare" time has been spent with my lovely new wife!
  11. Reik Major

    Reik Major

    Well, wifes are somehow important too, right? :) So apology is accepted by me. Just fire up the car and leave the driver naked if needed. :)
  12. Reik Major

    Reik Major

    Now serious again!

    I have to say I'm really overwhelmed how much work Nico invests here to keep our league running at a very high level of fairness, self regulation and gentlemen agreement. I'm happy to be part of this extraordinary league. :)

    I honestly hope that this thread encourages everyone to believe in the high level of gentlemen racing here and the fun we can get out of it, especially those guys who were the unlucky ones during the last events.

    Thank you very much Nico!!!
  13. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Hockenheimring has generous paved running off zones. First lap should work better for us there than it did at Suzuka. Knock on wood. Take it easy and chill out there is my advice. And then I can take the opportunity to get myself a better position while you're doing that, if you don't mind :)
  14. Reik Major

    Reik Major

    Hey Valter, now that you pay Daniel a trip to India, I can offer you to drive your car on pole if you pay my honeymoon some day in the future :)
  15. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Thank you for your generous offer mate, but I get vertigo when I look down into my wallet :)
    Regarding the offerings to our weather god, I think I stick to Jim's offer. Two front wings and rear a-link :wink:
  16. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

  17. Good stuff Dave. You take care of the important business first. Perhaps select a standard in-game car skin? If you haven't finished all of your sponsorship negotions yet.:)
  18. +1. All very much appreaciated mate.
  19. lol i've finally got it all done now!! Spent the last few hours painting and trying things.. i've uploaded it to my mediafire account if anyone wishes to download :) Do I need to post the link any where else, maybe make a thread for it but who makes threads about themself hehe?

    Here's the link..

  20. Reik Major

    Reik Major

    Thx Dave! Will dl it and put it into custom skins.