Assetto Corsa Payware, Mods Approval discussion

[Shadow Explorer]

I didn't read the entire thread but what I really hope, regarding modded cars.. is that AC will take the time to apply some kind of "censorship" to the mods.. so it will not become just like rFactor with a bunch of crap or unfinished mod..

Mod's can be REALLY good for a simulation but it also kills it on some other aspects..

LOL, thats the most stupid idea I ever encountered...
This will just discourage inexperienced people who want to get into modding
and in the end there will be no new modders...

better help those people if they still exist, to become better so they can produce "better quality" mods...

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I think an independent, unbiased organisation comprised of a bunch of fans/drivers should create a list for quality control.

If a car passes all the checklist points it´ll get a stamp of approval and people know that´s a Class A model they are downloading.

 

[2CV SUPER GT]

I agree with Shadow Explorer except for "most stupid idea". I think the idea was to give a different value depending on the quality.

So I agree with Shadow, everyone should deserve to have his mod on the scene, modding talent is something that we do not receive at our birth.

Then in the area of fred's idea, some "Golden Mods" should be made by those who doesn't spent time in modding but like it. Better than punish the beginners, reward the betters!

People don't forget that a mod like the Supra Super GT from Shadow Explorer should coast a lot if you request it to a professionnal. Full 3D, game integration, sounds, physics, coding, I think it's 3 months at full time with this range of quality, for a job that only professionnal can do, so double of a minimum salary at least. 6000€ on my country.

After the free release, few people will give smiley as comment while one week then, everyone will forget this mod, except when they'll think to found a bug.

 

[Sunil Odedra]

I think an independent, unbiased organisation comprised of a bunch of fans/drivers should create a list for quality control.

If a car passes all the checklist points it´ll get a stamp of approval and people know that´s a Class A model they are downloading.

I'm kind of with you on this. I really want new modders to feel encouraged to create but you only have to look to rfactor to see how badly this can go wrong. I think quality control is really important.

Heres some wild speculation to throw into the table. I'm not sure how KS are planning to avoid the mistakes of past open platforms but I have a feeling they will allow an rfactor 'free market' approach but with the possibility to sell the mods you make to the public (much like apple's app store). I personally would be happy to pay £2/3 for content if it's of top quality, given that the financial incentive could allow the best modders to have more financial freedom to build more/better content.

Quality control is important, as Hampus said. Not sure how this will be done, but I think Hampus's method or the survival of the forest method as outlined above would both do the job but survival method would increase content developers at the same time

Hi btw. Great forum. Been reading and wanting to join but have been having registration woes for the past month lol.

Cheers
Sunil

 

[Shadow Explorer]

I do not believe it is right to categorize people's efforts,modding is something free (most of the times)that is made out of love for cars or racing.

I'm pretty sure impressive efforts will surface out,since at least simracers
and I'm also sure that there isn't such a thing as unbiased organization...
or opinion.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

I agree with Shadow Explorer except for "most stupid idea". I think the idea was to give a different value depending on the quality.

So I agree with Shadow, everyone should deserve to have his mod on the scene, modding talent is something that we do not receive at our birth.

Then in the area of fred's idea, some "Golden Mods" should be made by those who doesn't spent time in modding but like it. Better than punish the beginners, reward the betters!

People don't forget that a mod like the Supra Super GT from Shadow Explorer should coast a lot if you request it to a professionnal. Full 3D, game integration, sounds, physics, coding, I think it's 3 months at full time with this range of quality, for a job that only professionnal can do, so double of a minimum salary at least. 6000€ on my country.

After the free release, few people will give smiley as comment while one week then, everyone will forget this mod, except when they'll think to found a bug.

My friend, he used the word censorship...
I couldn't help it.

This is a form of art and expression.

as for such organization,if they will also give positive feedback\cooperate to help modders improve their work,then yes i might start considering it.

 

[Lee Knight]

However it goes about it, an 'AC stamp of approval' would be nice, but vetting mods available for download is wrong for many of the reasons mentioned above, most of all, scaring of potential new modders whether it's cars OR tracks.....
Nor am I very comfortable with the idea that others -even though they may be professionals- demand money for mods on SO many levels....
One of them being that Kunos & crew have put in the hard work for someone else to make money out of it!
That's just wrong.
I'd possibly feel a little better about that concept if the titles developer got a percentage of the profit at least (or possibly to a charity of their choice?) & this goes for ALL platforms, not just AC....
Once we go down the road of developers asking for a 'royalty' from modders, then modding will pretty much die out & we're stuck in a world of iRacing/SRW, hacked sims, ripped-off mods/textures & no-one wins....
How about we just let it be with possibly an 'AC thumbs-Up'?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I'm kind of with you on this. I really want new modders to feel encouraged to create but you only have to look to rfactor to see how badly this can go wrong. I think quality control is really important.

If anything, it will only make them go that extra mile to get better.

Basically how it would work is you have this entity (fill in name here)
Then what modders can do is apply for a virtual badge after a lengthy review of the model itself has been done where you go through categories like amount of polygons and how they are distributed, level of detail in things like headlights, how accurate visually the whole car is, sounds compared to the real car, and many more things.

Really the only thing i would exclude if i was running this quality control thing would be physics.

It would be like food in the store. some food have stickers from certain entities that tells you there have been no child labor, everyone has gotten paid by a certain standard.

Same thing can be applied to AC. If one were to create an entity now it would probably not be highly respected but i think given time it will be something all modders will strive for to legitimize their mods.

should also say that if you are modding real cars you can´t charge money for it. That´s a criminal offence and it goes against the whole idea of modding.

It would be the same as downloading a movie Spielberg did then charge for it on the internet.

 

[Sunil Odedra]

Lee. The idea I suggested was supposed to imply that Kunos would own their 'App Store' and thereby demand a percentage of money made on the mods, and rightfully so.

If anything, it will only make them go that extra mile to get better.

Basically how it would work is you have this entity (fill in name here)
Then what modders can do is apply for a virtual badge after a lengthy review of the model itself has been done where you go through categories like amount of polygons and how they are distributed, level of detail in things like headlights, how accurate visually the whole car is, sounds compared to the real car, and many more things.

Really the only thing i would exclude if i was running this quality control thing would be physics.

.....

should also say that if you are modding real cars you can´t charge money for it. That´s a criminal offence and it goes against the whole idea of modding.

It would be the same as downloading a movie Spielberg did then charge for it on the internet.

Why would you omit physics reviewing from Virtual Badge?

You may have a point there about modders charging for car mods of say, Lamborghini, etc. not sure how that would work within the AC framework given the legal side.

 

[2CV SUPER GT]

...with the possibility to sell the mods you make to the public (much like apple's app store). I personally would be happy to pay £2/3 for content if it's of top quality, given that the financial incentive could allow the best modders to have more financial freedom to build more/better content.

Modders can't ask for money if they're using real model without legal licence. And I personally think that "free to play" is the way to choose nowadays. But make a donate is an easy way to reward talent if you want to help them and those of us who really do not have enough money to spend on are not forced to pay for play with their friends.

It would be the same as downloading a movie Spielberg did then charge for it on the internet.

I don't think so. You can compare modding with "the hunt for gollum" wich is unnoficial and fan movie.


I am pretty sure you never thought that a scratch made mod is not really the same than a ripped movie

About badge, maybe a badge for each "quality approoved" that can definite the mod :

- physics
- model accuracy
- framerate friendly
- high poly
- custom skin available
- sounds
- animation
- best mode ever (if got all rewards)

 

[Sunil Odedra]

I was thinking more like the Bollywood rip offs of big budget Hollywood films lol

 

[Shadow Explorer]

Payable mods is a huge topic...

concretec0w
It is perfectly fine to sell a mod and in any case not unfair to the game creator.
as long as you do not use any of their assets.

Just like selling a plug-in for a certain program.

should also say that if you are modding real cars you can´t charge money for it. That´s a criminal offence and it goes against the whole idea of modding.

It would be the same as downloading a movie Spielberg did then charge for it on the internet.

Your analogy is wrong, by downloading the movie you share the work of someone else.

A mod has large amount of work,yes it is based in a real world object,but the result belongs
it's creator.

for example my supra model belongs to me,Toyota have no rights over it.
also the name of the model credits it's origin
model supra made by Toyota.
The model is my own interpretation of the real thing created by me.

Now for the paying part,you are right,when you make a mod of an existing car,you keep it free in order to avoid licensing issues that might occur.

as far as I know there is not illegal art (unless it is stolen)

personally I will keep my mods free for everyone but when the time comes
I will also have a paypal button available for donations,since I really need them
in order to continue working to this extent and finish the series.


Again kunos cannot get involved with modding,because they would have to license content
so i guess they can go as far as giving some feedback and\or suggestions to the modding teams.

 

[2CV SUPER GT]

This topic is about car suggestions and we know that Kunos can only have goodness cheap licences or nice italian patriot licence. Dev tools are made for a better amount of licence.

Modders might be a better answer for reply to the suggestions here, and discuss on how mod quality and quantity can be improved is still a little bit on the thread, if people want a reply to their suggestions?

If wrong, let's go to an appropriate place

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I don't think so. You can compare modding with "the hunt for gollum" wich is unnoficial and fan movie.
I am pretty sure you never thought that a scratch made mod is not really the same than a ripped movie

About badge, maybe a badge for each "quality approoved" that can definite the mod :

- physics
- model accuracy
- framerate friendly
- high poly
- custom skin available
- sounds
- animation
- best mode ever (if got all rewards)

It´s the same.

Let´s say you mod a BMW. You are taking BMW´s property, license, their name and everything that goes with it and sells it as if you owned all the content.
It´s the same as dowloading a movie for free, then selling that video as if you owned all the rights to it.
It doesn´t matter who created the content whether it´s you or some other bloke creating the 3d model for viewing purposes only.
It´s the same scenario at the end of the day and BMW do not care that you spent 6 hours creating a 3d model of their car and then make money off it.

-
Yea that´s a good list although you can´t have physics incorporated as you can´t prove it´s not good without actually driving the real car.
All you can do is your own opinion about it.
With the rest you can set up guidelines scientifically and go from there.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Why would you omit physics reviewing from Virtual Badge?
You may have a point there about modders charging for car mods of say, Lamborghini, etc. not sure how that would work within the AC framework given the legal side.

Physics you would need to drive the car to say for sure that physics X is right or wrong as a fact.
With all the rest you can set up certain parameters to work from.

Impossible to say "car X should feel like this, but it only feels like this"
Unless you have actually driven the car.

Yea you can´t sell Lambo´s or any other manufacturer, it´s their property regardless if you made the content or not.

Now if you have a license, then it´s all green lights from there. But the manufacturer surely would want a piece of the cake. Probably the bigger piece.

 

[2CV SUPER GT]

I said this example about the work did. Create a movie or 3 Model is creation, ripp off a 3D model from forza or ripp a spielberg's movie is a rip.

About make money, I totally agree. That's why it should stay free unless you got the licence.

About Phyics, just a minimum quality. A model that replace another without any physics change should not deserve this badge with the guidelines made for.

I just thought to another badge about "easy installation"

 

[Shadow Explorer]

you know Hampus in model marketplaces you are free to sell anything.
because 3d is a form of art, so the 3d model is not theirs, just like a painting

if someone makes a ferrari painting and sell it,it will be perfectly fine.
there are so many illustrations or paintings depicting real world objects that someone manufactured....

Imagine the havoc when everyone of those companies ask loyalties for their objects depicted.

and no my model it is not their property in any case.It belongs only to me.
you are completely wrong about that one

only the design belongs to Toyota in my example.
but they are credited.

in the same analogy if you draw a portrait of milla jovovich,your portrait belongs to her,because she is the subject of this art piece.
This logic is totally wrong.

The current situation is such that you are fine to sell a badged model, but not a badged mod.

Problem is big publishers treat video games like products
and video games in general are seen as products and not form of art.
so as a product to use an existing design you have to pay loyalties.

Another issue that rises.

How do you feel about solutions like asano...
do you think it is better not to have license for something and sell it as a fictional design.

In such a case you adopt a design that doesn't belong to you, I would like your thoughts about this one.

 

[Fred Joseph]

LOL, thats the most stupid idea I ever encountered...

Btw, thanks a lot whoever you are with this comment. Really add to the conversation.

A plateform who would share mods and giving people an idea about it with a rating of some sort would help everybody..

The modders would have their work published (freely)
The end users would have an idea about the existing mods easily.

But I might be stupid you are right.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

I didn't call you stupid,but your idea.
which I believe it is,
Maybe you have chosen a wrong combination of words.
censorship is heavy one...

I'm sorry if you feel offended,well I kind of expected you would...
but hey it is just a conversation so do not take it personally.

I'm not here to make rivals.

 

[RaceNut]

The laws that apply to all things created, copied, sold, etc. are very complex. Unless you hold a masters degree or higher in copyright and related laws - then we would probably be amazed at how wrong we all are. There are so many details and stipulations that have to be considered in these issues that we cannot possibly begin to understand all of the complexities.

Some of these ideas about what constitutes art and copyrights are just wrong and even the use of a person's "likeness" is protected by law. It's just a matter of the person having the will and the means to protect it.