Are you happy with the latest tire model

[Rupe Wilson]

Do you think the tire model could be better,
After racing online i cant help but think the tire model is lacking in certain aspects,
It has loads of grip then all of a sudden it like it lets go, but the feel i get when it lets go is strange, its so hard to catch it..
by no means am i an expert driver, but i do find other sims a lot easier to control once the cars is sliding,
maybe the other sims have it wrong and this is correct but it just feels odd to me at times.

have you experienced the same or have a different feel

 

[christoph1954]

For the record since people can't obviously lose time following your story in the AC official forums.


Funy how you find and trust whatever race engineer or race drive you see fit, instead of the ones we let try our sim (without paying or sponsoring them) or the hundreds that practice on their own with our sim, before every Nurburgring race (just check any random FB racer profile so to say), or the fact that Kunos dev can drift pretty much anything they can put their hands on in real life.


Nothing is perfect, we try hard.
But your statement is false. We simulate cars and tyres from 2014 to 2016. It's not our goal to keep up with whatever happens in real time in the GT3/GT2 championship. Just because you can't reach the laptimes, doesn't mean some laptimes are impossible to make, as other simracers have demonstrated to you many times in the official forums.
Not even officially licensed F1 games, follow current year performances.


I'd really appreciate if you don't quote me on things I haven't said or completely out of context.
Again the discussion was on the late 2016 and current 2017 tyres and car evolutions.

For all the rest of the people that think AC tyre model is too unforgiving, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. We've always had one of the most forgiving tyre models in the industry, up to the point that often hardcore simracers were complaining it was too forgiving. As a matter of fact, AC is one of the best sims for drifting. We think that with v10 we are in a very good position. Also keep in mind that race cars, depending on the category, have also other features (aero, inertias, etc) that can make a car more nervous, all properly simulated by our engine.

There's always room for improvement, I always read and take inputs, but permit me to not agree with some of the criticism in this thread.

One thought about the many revisions of the tire model: I.e. the 70sVintage tires should not have much change since then. So why are they so often updated? And what is it, that is updated? And what was wrong with the first ones?

 

[markes]

Something doesn't "feel" right with this model.

Grab a 458 GT2 in Monza, pick slicks and see what happens to your front right tyre for 95% of the track's length. You need to screw the whole setup just to get inside the optimal temperature interval for that tyre. I don't think it's fun whatsoever.

 

[Gevatter]

On long straights with mostly slow bends you're gonna have colder tyres. User the soft tyres on your 458 GT2 and see what temperature they actually get to after two laps. They won't be stone cold, just below optimal, at which point you need to decide if it's worth screwing your setup (as you put it) to get into optimal temps or if you'd be faster with another setup below optimal temps.

That's the fun of finding the best compromise for the fastest lap time.

 

[markes]

On long straights with mostly slow bends you're gonna have colder tyres. User the soft tyres on your 458 GT2 and see what temperature they actually get to after two laps. They won't be stone cold, just below optimal, at which point you need to decide if it's worth screwing your setup (as you put it) to get into optimal temps or if you'd be faster with another setup below optimal temps.

That's the fun of finding the best compromise for the fastest lap time.

With the super slicks, optimal temps are perfectible reachable, but they're not an option for races, cause after 6 laps the left rear tyre is torned out.

But yeah, my current option is to run with a cold right front tyre, cause I need to mess everything to get some more degrees on that tyre.

 

[Epistolarius]

Something doesn't "feel" right with this model.

Grab a 458 GT2 in Monza, pick slicks and see what happens to your front right tyre for 95% of the track's length. You need to screw the whole setup just to get inside the optimal temperature interval for that tyre. I don't think it's fun whatsoever.

With the super slicks, optimal temps are perfectible reachable, but they're not an option for races, cause after 6 laps the left rear tyre is torned out.

But yeah, my current option is to run with a cold right front tyre, cause I need to mess everything to get some more degrees on that tyre.

Welcome to racing simulations and race cars. The AC stock setup isn't optimal for every track and all conditions and setup work is always about compromises. For some it's not fun, for some that challenge is where the fun starts.

 

[Gevatter]

With the super slicks, optimal temps are perfectible reachable, but they're not an option for races, cause after 6 laps the left rear tyre is torned out.

But yeah, my current option is to run with a cold right front tyre, cause I need to mess everything to get some more degrees on that tyre.

Just like I said, you need to find a setup you can be competitive in while holding your car together. A compromise. Monza is not an easy track to find a good setup for in my experience, and the front right won't get warm without losing the left tyres quickly. There's just nothing to do for the front right on Monza.

To get back on topic, I don't think that's a problem in the tyre model, although there's always the possibility of that. Blue color in the tyre app doesn't mean the tyre is cold, just that it's below optimal. How many degrees does the front right have after two laps on mediums at which ambient temp?

 

[markes]

How many degrees does the front right have after two laps on mediums at which ambient temp?

At an ambient temp of around 22ºc, I'll get around 60ºc on that tyre. Not cold, but below optimal. I'm not an expert, not even close, and I've been banging my head in the wall to get a better temp, but no luck till now.

Guess it's just like you said: Monza is not a friend for that front right tyre.

 

[Radu Oros]

What I learned from Aris tutorials on driving and setting up the car is if you can't reach optimal temperature in all tyres then is better to go for optimal pressure in all tyres. Even if your front right stays in blue color try to adjust its pressure to stay on green. That would be a better solution than using a weird setup which could make you slower only to have green tyre temp. Instead go for green pressure which might be better for the handling and speed of the car.

 

[JackCY]

Do you think the tire model could be better,
After racing online i cant help but think the tire model is lacking in certain aspects,
It has loads of grip then all of a sudden it like it lets go, but the feel i get when it lets go is strange, its so hard to catch it..
by no means am i an expert driver, but i do find other sims a lot easier to control once the cars is sliding,
maybe the other sims have it wrong and this is correct but it just feels odd to me at times.

have you experienced the same or have a different feel

From what I remember LFS was rather snappy compared to AC and when moving to AC it felt like driving sliding boats. LFS was nowhere near perfect in tyre model and it was being changed, dunno if after all the years it has been done finally probably not. So I would not say that AC is snappy at all, rather the opposite, of course it is nowhere near the sliding infinity grip of more arcade games.

AC the tyres vary a lot and model wise it seems OKish but how the model is used is not always OKish and some tyres are badly set. This is stock content from Kunos. They know about some and often cars get tweaked week or two after launch when they get more data from user statistics I bet. Some tyres are impossible to heat up and some overheat instantly despite being of same compound/type, it usually gets corrected, at least somewhat, the biggest outlier I knew did get corrected after a while when V10 came.

Model/math seems fine. But the data put into the model varies and as such some compounds and tyres seem good some worse. As far as heat vs grip etc. goes this is all per car per tyre set and is an issue of the data used not of the tyre model.
Indeed the tyres do seem to drive poorly when out of ideal temperature and pressure range, and while the differences may be a 2% "only" that is a lot of grip loss that is noticeable in handling and lap time. Is it realistic? Can't tell I'm not Pirelli or Dunlop, Michelin etc. to have precise data and characteristics of how each tyre should behave and perform, what the variances in available grip are from temperature and pressure change.

I would say the tyre model and most tyres modeled using it in AC are quite forgiving and slidey. If I am having grip problems of sudden grip loss it's often because of the car and it's stiff setup on a bumpy track.

No problem catching slides, drifting and racing with rear steering using throttle, the slidey tyres/model makes it easier than snappier LFS and AC seems more realistic I would say in that and in what car setup values I use as a result when managing slip.

Model: OKish
Tyres created using the model: depends on how accurately they are made, varies

 

[Mr Deap]

For all the rest of the people that think AC tyre model is too unforgiving, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. We've always had one of the most forgiving tyre models in the industry, up to the point that often hardcore simracers were complaining it was too forgiving. As a matter of fact, AC is one of the best sims for drifting.

Talking about drifting...

Although it is forgiving for racing, but it make some drifting maneuver more unforgiving.

 

[JackCY]

Talking about drifting...

Although it is forgiving for racing, but it make some drifting maneuver more unforgiving.

In what way?

I would say the AC model as Aris wrote it in your quote is on the line between arcade/sim, that's not to say the model is bad but the data used makes most of the cars quite forgiving and slidey, by slidey I mean they do not snap, the transition with increasing slip is relatively smooth, making it easy to handle, that of course depends on what tyre and car you try but overall it's on the slidey-smooth transition side. On the other hand it makes dealing with understeer a pain as it is harder to read it when the front is sliding a little instead of gripping and then snapping. As such precision for driving on a limit is worse with this slidey approach on the tyres.

I would actually say it's the opposite, drifting is easier because the tyres tend to act slidey smooth and don't snap. Where as for racing the transition could be more precise in it's distinction making the limit easier to read. Which one is more realistic? Can't say but both are driftable and raceable.

What most people have a problem with when drifting is weight transition not even the tyres.

 

[Mr Deap]

When you're trying to drift the right way

 

[Enagee]

My thoughts on Tyre model.....As long its the same for everyone, i'll have to make it work.