Are you happy with the latest tire model

[Rupe Wilson]

Do you think the tire model could be better,
After racing online i cant help but think the tire model is lacking in certain aspects,
It has loads of grip then all of a sudden it like it lets go, but the feel i get when it lets go is strange, its so hard to catch it..
by no means am i an expert driver, but i do find other sims a lot easier to control once the cars is sliding,
maybe the other sims have it wrong and this is correct but it just feels odd to me at times.

have you experienced the same or have a different feel

 

[Aristotelis]

Wrong.
Just a simple research on the web can show you something like this Pirelli table. There are other examples too.

We also tend to believe more the data we get from engineers than web findings.
Furthermore, when the TV presenter talks about "soft,medium,hard" the truth is quite different. The tyre manufacturer will bring various compounds to different tracks and still call them "soft, medium, hard". But a soft compound on track X can be harder than the hard compound on track Y. We can't track all of this in the sim as it would be really difficult to follow and explain to users. When and if we simulate night and rain we will think again.

Finally, simracers often suffer from the "perfect world, perfect Hud" sindrome. You see the tyres app and if it's not perfect green then everything is wrong. You get a tyre with 60°C and thing "oh that's terrible I'm ice skating". In reality in real life you wouldn't be able to touch the tyre with your hand... plus the teams and drivers more often than not, have to deal with suboptimal temperatures and just deal with it.

But yeah you can keep up your war against whatever you think it's important, please do not quote me again though and I'll be glad to ignore your preaching.

 

[StefanoCasillo]

and yet here you are playing this terrible terrible game.
go figure

 

[Hygge]

My main concern is when they changed from version 1.9 to the versions afterwards.
The best ever experience I ever had in a sim game was the Ferrari 458 on Imola in the version 1.9 of the game.Then something changed in the physics and all of a sudden the car was very hard to drive. There is oversteer in every corner and the steering feels very nervous. With the same default setup as before I now have to add some TC to be able to control the car otherwise I will almost spin in every corner when I apply the throttle,I don't know if it's related to the tyre model or some general change in the physics of the game but for me the great feel of the cars have disappeared.
Does anyone know what changed during those updates?

 

[Andy_J]

and yet here you are playing this terrible terrible game.
go figure

It's just a smattering of opinion from seasoned sim racers. Surely you can see that? Constructive criticism and all that. No need to think you are actually a Lord and King.

 

[Gray Fox]

I am very satisfied with the tire model 10, it seems sublime to me. This is one of the reasons why I use this sim, the feelings are very real. There are simulators with many more lines of code in their tires, but nothing feels like Assetto Corsa. One thing I really hate is when a tire bursts, it is not real, it really is not a feature that interests me since it is really complicated to bust it. But since it has been added this feature would be well that it works correctly, now the car does not move.

Aris, I realized that the alpha romeo gta and abarth are no longer on three wheels, before this happened very frequently but with the new tire model this has stopped happening. What is the reason?
example:

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

Does anyone know what changed during those updates?

v7 tire model evolved into v10; the reason it did this was to closer mimic reality in temps and 'feel'.

 

[Hygge]

If I'm not mistaken I think at least the Ferarri 458 was on v10 in v1.9 so apart from the tyre change I think they change other parts of the physics as well

 

[Gevatter]

There were also some changes to inertia values and little physics variables some time around that version If I remember correctly(!). There should be something in the changelogs (eg on Steam) about this I believe.

 

[Mapu]

[...] Finally, simracers often suffer from the "perfect world, perfect Hud" sindrome. You see the tyres app and if it's not perfect green then everything is wrong. You get a tyre with 60°C and thing "oh that's terrible I'm ice skating". In reality in real life you wouldn't be able to touch the tyre with your hand... plus the teams and drivers more often than not, have to deal with suboptimal temperatures and just deal with it. [...]

Coming from previous racing sims, I too had to learn and understand that perfect numbers do (like in reality) not exist in the sim model of Assetto Corsa. This is all the more surprising because I graduated from the applied sciences and was under the impression that I couldn't fall for such wrong conclusions.

 

[Albert McSaltens]

Wrong.
Just a simple research on the web can show you something like this Pirelli table. There are other examples too.

We also tend to believe more the data we get from engineers than web findings.
Furthermore, when the TV presenter talks about "soft,medium,hard" the truth is quite different. The tyre manufacturer will bring various compounds to different tracks and still call them "soft, medium, hard". But a soft compound on track X can be harder than the hard compound on track Y. We can't track all of this in the sim as it would be really difficult to follow and explain to users. When and if we simulate night and rain we will think again.

Finally, simracers often suffer from the "perfect world, perfect Hud" sindrome. You see the tyres app and if it's not perfect green then everything is wrong. You get a tyre with 60°C and thing "oh that's terrible I'm ice skating". In reality in real life you wouldn't be able to touch the tyre with your hand... plus the teams and drivers more often than not, have to deal with suboptimal temperatures and just deal with it.

But yeah you can keep up your war against whatever you think it's important, please do not quote me again though and I'll be glad to ignore your preaching.

Those table look more like a F1 tyre than a gt tyre, but anyways, that still would not explain th elack of grip, pirelli normally brings the DHC compound on tracks wich is the endurance tyre the harder one.
In blancpain endurance series they bring the hard one for sprint series also. this is since 2016 where as before pirelli brought the medium compound for the sprint series. But if you say pirelli brings soft compound on some tracks i wonder how they last a full hour stint with no issues. your soft tyre doesn't do that., and when pirelli brings the hard tyre the laptimes compared to your hard tyre are way faster

I'm not in a war to AC or you, but looks like that's what you think of people dissagreeing with some things in AC.
good night

 

[Albert McSaltens]

and yet here you are playing this terrible terrible game.
go figure

Your Game isn't terrible, the handling is not bad, it's the lack of feature that turns simracers back, but the worst of all in AC is how You Stefano , treat the comunity, wich most of them are your Clients believe it or not. and that i snot only my opinion it's a pretty well spread opinion on the comunity, that you are just doing a pretty bad job treating the comunity.

 

[Lorenzo Bonder]

When and if we simulate night and rain we will think again.

Damnit Aris, nearly had me on this sentence

But cool spreadsheet, that actually sparkled a bit my curiosity (if you can acutally tell us a thing or two) which maybe you or @kunos :
When you say you get data from engineers, what kind of techincal data do you guys receive? Like engine power/torque charts, suspension travel data or anything more specific? Note that I might be saying a bit gibberish, but that got me curious not only as a car lover but as a software developer myself.

 

[StefanoCasillo]

Your Game isn't terrible, the handling is not bad, it's the lack of feature that turns simracers back, but the worst of all in AC is how You Stefano , treat the comunity, wich most of them are your Clients believe it or not. and that i snot only my opinion it's a pretty well spread opinion on the comunity, that you are just doing a pretty bad job treating the comunity.

you know you are right... working nights to push updates on a 3 years game really is a huge disrespect to the "community". Sitting here at 10:30 in the night reading your stuff is a huge disrespect to the community.
You are right, I should really stop caring... I really should, that's exactly what you deserve.
Hopefully this time I can really manage to do it.

 

[Aristotelis]

Wrong again.
It comes from this website, as I said pretty normal info to find on the web and it is about slick GT or Tourism tyres.
https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-us/motorsport/all-tires/products-sheet/slick#/performance-features

Now before people start complaining, rightfully so, that we have lost way to much time in this "personal attack", I just want to clear up the situation:

It's different when someones says "you know what? I don't like your game."
Perfectly acceptable. My hats to you sir, I will try again to improve my product, but until then, good luck with whatever you think it makes you happy.

It's also different when someone likes the game, but brings proper constructive criticism and data and expresses doubts or offers advice, we have proven multiple times that we can take it on the chin and silently work hard behind the scenes to correct any errors.

But, when someone post after post, after post, after post, keeps criticising a game (it is a game after all, or for more serious with it, a great hobby that should bring joy), has never ever EVER said a single good word in years of development, has been banned from the official forums just because of the same reasons and keeps doing so at every opportunity on other forums, then should also accept the criticism in his end.
But no, you go immediately in defensive and "martyr" mode about "oh how bad the devs are against the community".

Guess what? Devs have to deal with it every day and most of the time take it to the chin and accept it. At the same time they manage to make hundreds of thousands of people happy with their product, but at the same time according to this "community logic" (not the real community just to be clear), they to listen and never react to someone that posts inaccuracies every single time. By the way this game, for them is not a hobby but their professional career and a means to feed their family?
What kind of logic is that? Because this is what is happening every single day, not only in AC, but to every single sim, game, product.

Anyway, I really apologize to the rest of the member forums, I got this way out of hand and I'm sorry. But I really also wanted to show you a different point of view, put things a bit in perspective.
Sorry again for the rant, to the people that either understand, or simply are here for the fun part, as it should be.

 

[Aristotelis]

Damnit Aris, nearly had me on this sentence

But cool spreadsheet, that actually sparkled a bit my curiosity (if you can acutally tell us a thing or two) which maybe you or @kunos :
When you say you get data from engineers, what kind of techincal data do you guys receive? Like engine power/torque charts, suspension travel data or anything more specific? Note that I might be saying a bit gibberish, but that got me curious not only as a car lover but as a software developer myself.

Sorry m8, good question, just to give you a short answer.
Best case scenario is when officially we get full technical data, aero maps, suspension CAD, dampers graphs and so on.
Nevertheless, sometimes some data are either top secret, or simply do not exist.
We have 2 ways to collect more data in those occasions. Luckily having the office in the track. This permits us often to measure things up, ourselves. Being a suspension geometry, telemetry data or other measurements.
Also put us in a position to meet and be trusted by many engineers and drivers. We (and you should too, guys), never thank enough those invisible "heroes" that prefer to remain unnamed of course, that work inside the automotive departments of the best manufacturers and happily share "extra information with us"

Once we have as many data as possible, we input those data in the physics engine and lock them. Everything we know goes in and never to be touched again. Then we try the car on the sim and we often also let the actual drivers (real drivers) to test it, either in our offices or in their personal sims at home. We then verify the telemetry, feedback and laptimes and see what is missing. This is where "the magic" happens. We try to reverse engineering ONLY on the data that we don't know, and get the car to behave and perform as good as the original, by modifying just the unknown data.

That's how we do it usually. And that is also why sometimes, after years, we go back and modify some more, some already released cars. You won't find many other niche videogames/sims, that do this... only in simracing and maybe aircraft simulation

 

[David Dominguez]

I love how everybody talks about "tyre model" as something universal, like if the dozens of parameters used in the tyre files were totally irrelevant. I mean, with the same tyre model you can make tyres that have whatever operating window that you want, or that are less or more snappy while sliding, etc.

 

[Albert McSaltens]

you know you are right... working nights to push updates on a 3 years game really is a huge disrespect to the "community". Sitting here at 10:30 in the night reading your stuff is a huge disrespect to the community.
You are right, I should really stop caring... I really should, that's exactly what you deserve.
Hopefully this time I can really manage to do it.

that has nothing to do with the way you treat people in the comunity

 

[Lorenzo Bonder]

Sorry m8, good question, just to give you a short answer.
Best case scenario is when officially we get full technical data, aero maps, suspension CAD, dampers graphs and so on.
Nevertheless, sometimes some data are either top secret, or simply do not exist.
We have 2 ways to collect more data in those occasions. Luckily having the office in the track. This permits us often to measure things up, ourselves. Being a suspension geometry, telemetry data or other measurements.
Also put us in a position to meet and be trusted by many engineers and drivers. We (and you should too, guys), never thank enough those invisible "heroes" that prefer to remain unnamed of course, that work inside the automotive departments of the best manufacturers and happily share "extra information with us"

Once we have as many data as possible, we input those data in the physics engine and lock them. Everything we know goes in and never to be touched again. Then we try the car on the sim and we often also let the actual drivers (real drivers) to test it, either in our offices or in their personal sims at home. We then verify the telemetry, feedback and laptimes and see what is missing. This is where "the magic" happens. We try to reverse engineering ONLY on the data that we don't know, and get the car to behave and perform as good as the original, by modifying just the unknown data.

That's how we do it usually. And that is also why sometimes, after years, we go back and modify some more, some already released cars. You won't find many other niche videogames/sims, that do this... only in simracing and maybe aircraft simulation

Massive Aris, cheers for the reply man. Knew it in a heartbeat when I was reading this you'd give that mention to aricraft/flight sims though

 

[Albert McSaltens]

Wrong again.
It comes from this website, as I said pretty normal info to find on the web and it is about slick GT or Tourism tyres.
https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-us/motorsport/all-tires/products-sheet/slick#/performance-features

Now before people start complaining, rightfully so, that we have lost way to much time in this "personal attack", I just want to clear up the situation:

It's different when someones says "you know what? I don't like your game."
Perfectly acceptable. My hats to you sir, I will try again to improve my product, but until then, good luck with whatever you think it makes you happy.

It's also different when someone likes the game, but brings proper constructive criticism and data and expresses doubts or offers advice, we have proven multiple times that we can take it on the chin and silently work hard behind the scenes to correct any errors.

But, when someone post after post, after post, after post, keeps criticising a game (it is a game after all, or for more serious with it, a great hobby that should bring joy), has never ever EVER said a single good word in years of development, has been banned from the official forums just because of the same reasons and keeps doing so at every opportunity on other forums, then should also accept the criticism in his end.
But no, you go immediately in defensive and "martyr" mode about "oh how bad the devs are against the community".

Guess what? Devs have to deal with it every day and most of the time take it to the chin and accept it. At the same time they manage to make hundreds of thousands of people happy with their product, but at the same time according to this "community logic" (not the real community just to be clear), they to listen and never react to someone that posts inaccuracies every single time. By the way this game, for them is not a hobby but their professional career and a means to feed their family?
What kind of logic is that? Because this is what is happening every single day, not only in AC, but to every single sim, game, product.

Anyway, I really apologize to the rest of the member forums, I got this way out of hand and I'm sorry. But I really also wanted to show you a different point of view, put things a bit in perspective.
Sorry again for the rant, to the people that either understand, or simply are here for the fun part, as it should be.

that graphic shows
- The hard tyre to be working from 23º ambient temperatures and up,
- th emediums from 17 to 30º ambient temps,
That idoesn't match what happens in AC with TM10

And again im not in a war against AC or you, i'm pointing out what i think it's not correct
And do not lie about me saying that i go post after post after post critizicing and that i have never said anything good from AC. that is a lie. or you do not remeber when i talked to you some times in Skype,, i gave you compliments there for certaint things., you seem to only remember when people says something they thing it's not right, but not when i told you things where good.

 

[StefanoCasillo]

nvm.. not really worth