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Are we ever going to see a fix for the "Centre" FFB issue?

Discussion in 'RaceRoom Racing Experience' started by Msportdan, Jul 7, 2015.

  1. Msportdan

    Msportdan
    @ Simberia @Simberia

    Aggressive centre force.....

    high oscillation around the center....

    floaty/swaying ffb on centre.......

    Words that describe what a lot of RRe players have reported about in the last year or so. S3 have also sent us many updates since then, but none hold the key to making this sim be among the greats.

    When sector 3 are we gonna see this, ive spent money on this and my issue hasnt been fixed, so can you offer my money back then? I know ive banged on but seriously i am pissed about this problem now, its sooo frustrating. Youve added fanatec support but cant fix this. Also any answers just seem to be in the vain of "others don't have the problem so you shouldn't" or see the useless FFB thread.

    This is not my emotions getting the better of me, this is the fact im

    .....fed up of waiting for a fix in an update which never seems to come

    ..... frustrated i bought content in this game that doesnt want to fix issues that been throughout its life span

    ....... sick of coming on here and getting the same old crap answers from users that either a)dont recognise the problem b)ignore the issue c)just havent a clue.

    Please s3 answer this thread please, are you going to fix this FFB issue, once and for all or let this game be forever known for its floaty awful ffb issue?

    Regards Dan

    (please mods dont lock this thread let s3 have a chance to answer)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
    • Like Like x 5
  2. Nox

    Nox
    Staff Premium Member

    I agree this FFB issue is a major problem; the one around the center of the wheel. It's keeping me restricted to the WTCC cars right now because it's not so bad with them because of FWD. I love the game, it looks great, and I've had some huge fun with it, but this issue has to be acknowledged and fixed already.

    "Also any answers just seem to be in the vain of "others don't have the problem so you shouldn't" or see the useless FFB thread." this. Exactly this! hear hear! I've spent aaages fiddling around with FFB settings, that isn't the problem, it's something wrong in the game, proven even more so by how many people are reporting this exact same issue.

    And I say again, I enjoy R3Es touring cars, but this is a bug that should be addressed sooner rather than later. This isn't people complaining over nothing, this is a valid problem.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Warren Schembri

    Warren Schembri
    Premium Member

    sorry, just can' t help myself but after seeing the title of this thread, my first thought was of this:

    [​IMG]

    ps: hope the ffb issues get sorted
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. James Cook

    James Cook
    Marcas fan

    Have to agree. This has been an issue for far too long with no solution in sight. Sector3 has never given a satisfactory answer on this issue.

    Centring forces ARE too strong and I say this as someone who has played R3E with two different brands of wheels (CSR & T300) and a myriad of settings. The only way to lessen this effect is to ramp up the damping to overpower some of the centre forces, but this is far from a desired nor ideal solution.

    It has been suggested that the swaying (a seperate issue) is car setup related and if so, default setups should be adjusted appropriately.

    I don't want to be too down on the FFB as in general it's pretty good. The centre force issue needs attention though.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Msportdan

    Msportdan
    @ Simberia @Simberia

    Have you heard guys...


    Forcefeedback FRIDAYS!!!



    not... :(

    Also ive played RRe on a DFGT, G27 and a t300, and all wheels do not make this issue go away.
     
  6. Nox

    Nox
    Staff Premium Member

    @Jay Ekkel @Sonat Ozturk hope you don't mind me tagging you, I just thought "heck, nothing to lose, right?" Just wondered if you guys were aware of this issue and if there was some fix in the works? Thanks!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Georg Ortner

    Georg Ortner
    Sector3 Studios Premium Member

    I´m on a g27 and these are my current settings: http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/wheel-ffb-settings-thread.106914/page-4#post-2042365
    I´m very happy with them.

    If you are having problems with oscilliation reduce vertical and use more lateral force instead (also see the profile i linked above)

    I´m not experiencing any aggressive center forces so i´m not sure what´s causing this on your end. Did you disable springs in driver settings?
    What wheel do you refer to here?

    Floaty center is a known problem with some wheels.
    We have some ideas for a workaround, but haven´t had the time yet to work on them.
     
  8. Nox

    Nox
    Staff Premium Member

    I'm on a G27 too. The problem is when returning to the center, the FFB sort of fights against itself. If I were to let go of the wheel, it pushes left, then right, then MORE left, then MORE right and sort of wobbles out of control. I'll be honest, I don't think us fiddling with FFB sliders is the solution, we've been doing that for ages already with no luck. It's something more than that. But I am appreciative to see someone address the issue.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Msportdan

    Msportdan
    @ Simberia @Simberia

    Thanks for your post.

    But to challenge.. surely the FFB should be atop your priority, it has been an issue longer than most of your fixes on your change logs?!

    Rgds
     
  10. Georg Ortner

    Georg Ortner
    Sector3 Studios Premium Member

    I´ve had that a lot less with the settings posted above, @Nox.
    Because of the increased lateral forces.
     
  11. Nox

    Nox
    Staff Premium Member

    Thanks for replying. So you say even your setup means that happens a "lot less", so there definitely is an issue that needs properly addressing. I'll try your settings too, but I think that's sort of a temporary solution (assuming it works). and I hope SimBin work on a proper fix soon. It shouldn't really be ignored (not everyone even goes to sim racing forums searching for solutions) as it is such a fundamental part of the game. Appreciate it, Georg.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. jimortality

    jimortality
    Premium Member

    @Msportdan @Nox Is it possible to record it on your phone what's happening because I don't get it but then again, If I don't know what I'm looking for.................... would I definitely notice it if it was happening to me?
     
  13. James Cook

    James Cook
    Marcas fan

    To be fair @Georg Ortner, I'm sure we've all tried so many different settings. There is a fundamental problem here that needs addressing.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Msportdan

    Msportdan
    @ Simberia @Simberia

    ive posted this video so many times now.

    okay

    View My Video

    T300 GTE RIM
    In this video.. shows my issue.. I know letting go of the wheel isn't natural racing. But is shows the force I have to fight when it tries to auto centre the wheel (more often that not overcompensates as well). So when trying to correct the car, be it exiting a corner or counter steering, its difficult and causes swaying. I have set 100 constant 100 period 0 spring 0 damper in my driver, and game to set centre setting. I also don't run that high lat and vert forces, as I know this effects this kinda thing.

    To get rid of this I have to have the steer force set as low as 30 so I get more a natural steering feel. But at the sacrifice of loosing most feel in the tyres! In all my other sims if I turn then lessen my grip the wheel will follow the momentum of the tyres which gradualy centres the wheel but in a more natural motion. In rre I get a snapping feel like the wheels been jerked the other way. *shown in my video above.

    I think the possible solutions that could fix this or what may be wrong.

    1) CASTER - on default setups (not controlled by user) are all out.
    Positive caster angle[edit]
    The pivot points of the steering are angled such that a line drawn through them intersects the road surface slightly ahead of the contact patch of the tire on the pavement. The purpose of this is to provide a degree of self-centering for the steering — the wheel casters around so as to trail behind the axis of steering. This makes a car easier to drive and improves its directional stability (reducing its tendency to wander). Excessive caster angle will make the steering heavier and less responsive, although, in racing, large caster angles are used to improve camber gain in cornering. Caster angles over 7 degrees with radial tires are common. Power steering is usually necessary to overcome the jacking effect from the high caster angle.

    What does caster do for alignment?

    It’s all about straight lines with caster. Take a look at a bicycle. Trust us, this is going to be the best way to understand the caster setting. Caster is the reason your bicycle steers in a straight line even after you take your hands off the handlebar. That’s because the front spindle on your bicycle has a forward angle (caster) built in.

    Your car’s caster works in the same way. When your car travels straight down the road with little handling on your part, that’s due to your caster setting. If you’re driving down a straight path but start pulling to one side, that’s a sign your caster is off. We’ll get you all fixed up and realigned.

    What does caster provide to your alignment?




      • Directional stability: The ability to stay on a straight course with little or no effort.
      • Returnability After completing a turn, your steering wheel spins back to the “straight ahead” position. You can thank the caster for that.
    Do caster settings change for different types of vehicles?
    Without a doubt. The caster angle is determined by your vehicle’s suspension design and the intended vehicle use. If you have a high speed, high performance ride, your sports car will need more caster to handle better on the straightaway and when coming out of turns. Can we get a vrooom over here?


    2) Minimum force/wheel scrub is needed through the FFB. So its doesnt feel so floaty and hover-y in the middle.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  15. James Cook

    James Cook
    Marcas fan

    I don't know how feasible it would be but the simplest solution would surely be a centring force strength slider?

    By the way I experience the same thing as Dan.
     
  16. Emerson Meyer

    Emerson Meyer
    Keep Fighting Premium Member

    Your problem is worst than I though Dan.
    I have a G27, and this problem is not that intense...but it's there.

    The general feeling is like I was "driving" a boat. It seems like the car has almost no grip at all.

    And yes, I have tried many tweaks and settings.
    As soon as I start the engine, and even at very low speed I can't "feel" the tyres on the ground I get very frustrated.
     
  17. Nox

    Nox
    Staff Premium Member

    I experience the same thing as Dan.
     
  18. James Cook

    James Cook
    Marcas fan

    I would assume this isn't seen as an issue considering the number of threads that exist regarding this subject, and that none ever reach a satisfactory outcome. It's a case of "feels fine through my wheel, so....."
     
  19. Msportdan

    Msportdan
    @ Simberia @Simberia

    RF2 have just put a minimum torque setting in the sim. RRe badly needs this too as it pretty much rids any floppy/loose/floaty sensation around normal consumer wheels.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. James Cook

    James Cook
    Marcas fan

    Agreed, but not sure it would cure the over aggressive centring forces.