Are simracers the biggest naysayers in the world?

[Joco Gorenc]

OK so I noticed so many topics, specially on AC forums about the sim having too much traction etc... For example a guy that drove a real xbow but at golf cart speed and on a damp track saying the AC xbow has too much traction when stepping on throttle. So he compares two very different conditions and you see all this discussion going on without anybody having actually tested the exact same car(from tires, setup etc...) and same track conditions. I have done many track days with a Rotax max kart and I tell you even if there are litlerally few drops of rain on track it changes traction dramatically(even more so in a car).

Not trying to be a fanboy but netkar for me always was a different kind of sim, on another level from anything else(with some minor faults ofcourse in physics of some cars). AC I think is now really the peak of what they could achieve with their current knowledge and also computing capabilities of our PCs. The latter is important and extremely tricky as developers have to make simplifications of some physics coding for normal PCs to support.

Im just saying we should enjoy what Kunos brought to us so far. Doubting is healthy ofcourse but too much is too much. If you do it, at least have some real experiances and proof before making a 10 page topic of how easy the sim is while youre several seconds off pace.

My 0,02$

 

[Bernhard Schreyek]

There are so many "naysayers" in simracing-genre cause people spend massive money for wheel, gfx, monitors etc so they think this stuff will make them automaticly faster or better. But then they see - no it doesnt work. So it must be the game.

 

[stabizisback]

I think the main reason is that everybody have driven a car. It doesnt matter which car, it automatically makes you an expert in rubber and race mechanics. If you have driven through a roundabout in 20 mph you know everything about Eau Rouge in 120 mph in a GT car, its just the way the internet works. Track days makes it even worse, I have seen so many conflicting opinions based on track days, you cant even make most of it up.

I spent a lot of time in submarine sims some years ago, and the tone was very different, and I suspect thats because not a single one of us had commanded a WW2 submarine. Still, people complained about bow waves based on their tiny leisure boat, so its second nature I guess.

 

[LazyBug]

Racing with real people on the same track at the same time. Driving defending lines, prepare an overtake, managing a gap, etc ...

If all the simracer only looking for these element from a racing game then they should have no problem at all playing simcade or even arcade game cause many these game also offer that kind of racing simulation.

But i bet many simracer especially hardcore type wont play Grid 2 / or even F1 series because to them those game is fake in term of the physic. They always want Real or True simulation racing game, of cause nothing wrong to expect something even more real but if one start to expect a 100% Real or True simulation then that going to be a problem.

And i bet we have alot these type of simracer around all the time

 

[Rui Santos]

If all the simracer only looking for these element from a racing game then they should have no problem at all playing simcade or even arcade game cause many these game also offer that kind of racing simulation.

But i bet many simracer especially hardcore type wont play Grid 2 / or even F1 series because to them those game is fake in term of the physic. They always want Real or True simulation racing game, of cause nothing wrong to expect something even more real but if one start to expect a 100% Real or True simulation then that going to be a problem.

And i bet we have alot these type of simracer around all the time

Agree with LazyBug, as i consider myself a "simracer" i can no longer play GT or Forza or Grid or Need for Speed because it feels no good at all after you experience simulators, it's just no real at all and no more fun for me on those "arcadish" games... i think that's what a simracer is, a person who likes real world physics and all motorsport environment simulated in a racing sim...

 

[Mr Whippy]

I think the main reason is that everybody have driven a car. It doesnt matter which car, it automatically makes you an expert in rubber and race mechanics. If you have driven through a roundabout in 20 mph you know everything about Eau Rouge in 120 mph in a GT car, its just the way the internet works. Track days makes it even worse, I have seen so many conflicting opinions based on track days, you cant even make most of it up.

But car characteristics don't suddenly change from car to car.

They are all just four rubber patches on the floor in the end.

I've had understeer in the snow on bald road tyres, I've had understeer and oversteer in tractors in mud. In general they all 'do' the same kinds of things in similar conditions.

Some people over-rate the requirement of experience to dictate having a valid opinion.

I agree in some extreme cases the high downforce GT cars on fast tracks are out of many peoples experiences. But a lot of the concerns people raise are not invalid because they are not a racing pro.


Infact, if we say that this simulation is really hyper accurate, then they have a great deal of experience understanding how cars should feel within a hyper accurate simulation environment because they have experienced this simulator.

So if this simulation is correct, their opinion on how cars react is valid.

Dave

 

[Bakkster]

I've had understeer in the snow on bald road tyres, I've had understeer and oversteer in tractors in mud. In general they all 'do' the same kinds of things in similar conditions.

Well, loose surfaces don't behave like pavement. Very different forces at work.

We definitely all have experience with driving under the limit. If cars don't feel right at 50MPH on gentle corners, we should notice. Beyond that, things become tenuous.

 

[LazyBug]

But car characteristics don't suddenly change from car to car.
They are all just four rubber patches on the floor in the end.
Dave

Is that you mean all AWD / RWD / FWD car should drive & behave the same given the same tire / road / temp / speed condition ?? Its sound quite wrong i suppose if you mean that. I dont know what cost that but at least not all the street car that i have drive behave the same, some easier to turn, some have heavier front, some has more accelerate power, some have very strong brake, some still feel very steady even driven on wet road with somewhat old tyre but some feel quite slippery driven on wet road with about the same speed with newer tyre .. n so on.

I dont know how to explain in detail or use many data to explain but i learn a lesson where i almost damage my friend's family car. The 1st 2 street car that i already drive quite sometime is my father & brother's car, they both more or less the same but actually still not quite same in term of characteristics example one has heavier wheel, nevertheless i drive both for quite sometime to some point that i can drive quite fast and do some little spin / little power slide stuffs, if my father & brother not around, of cause

Now come the best part, one day my friend come look for me with his car and we decide to go my father construction site to have fun with it, he is the one who drive me to the site & he also the 1st one who test the car and do some stupid stunt with the car and then my turn, at that point i expect all the street car in the world should more or less the same characteristics so i immediately drive it the way i drive my family car, i accelerate the car as usual, push it to some similar speed in a long straight as usual where i already feel something different but i still keep going till i reach the turn where i use to do a power slide / spin and of cause i do that move as usual as well but then something goes wrong, i cant recall what happen exactly but the car still carry way more speed than usual like the brake not working & car suddenly become very light, fly abit to the side for some distance & almost go upside down that really scare the shiit out of me

From that day on i always have some kind of "respect" mindset with me everytime i drive a car that i havent drive before, even if i already drive the same model. Yeah i feel like they will punish me if i dont respect & drive them properly before i finally get to know them very well.

 

[Mr Whippy]

LazyBug, I mean the fundamental 'feel' is the same across cars.

Racing cars don't suddenly feel like aeroplanes, or F1 cars feel like driving army tanks.

They are all 4 pieces of rubber on spinning wheels, attached to a rigid body in which you sit, with the same feedback potentials. Feet doing pedals for brakes/acceleration, steering done by the arms etc.

They all fundamentally react the same. Drive a 1.0 3 cylinder Corsa, or a 500bhp rwd Ferrari and you will sense and feel the same kinds of reactions in the chassis, tyres and weight transfers etc.

They all react the same kinda fundamental ways and those experiences are valid no matter what you drive. Your brain should have a good idea what feels right or wrong, even if you never drove a racing car, you should have a rough idea what feels right. Ie, when the car oversteers, you counter-steer. When it understeers, you lift off gently. No cars that I know do the opposite.

It's all the same fundamentally.

You don't hop in a racing car and crash at the first bend if you never drove one before, you use your existing skills driving a normal car and apply them to a fundamentally similar car.

Dave

 

[LazyBug]

LazyBug, I mean the fundamental 'feel' is the same across cars.
Dave

Ok i guess i misunderstood what you mean then. By the way i not qualify to comment or discuss about the rest of the things that you mention cause that all too deep for me, i usually just sit tight, push the gas and drive

 

[UOPshadow]

Well, regarding todays announcement, one could think so.

 

[BanjoMaster]

In answer to the initial question, yes, yes they are

 

[Dinca Andrei]

People are so spoiled this days from many points of view...everything must be perfect for the ball queen

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

After reading just a random few of the comments on the ac facebook pay the answer to you OP's question is YES, YES THEY ARE!! Sim racing history is about to be made and the comments over there are the biggest cesspool of negativity I have ever seen. Embarrassing if that is the community that we always speak of. I would say that children shouldn't be allowed to post on Facebook but I have a really bad feeling that a good bit of them are of legal age to supposedly be an adult.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Looks like there is a lot of Garfield’s in this world, not sure they are over represented in the SIM community.
Maybe the ability to hide behind a keyboard on the internet facilitate, for this type of individual, to express their in ability to be happy.
In any case, a feature I would appreciate in life is the ignore button, I would not be part of any internet forum without this feature.

 

[William Levesque]

What the heck is this ? I come back from 2 days of Internet deprivation, I come back and AC is getting a laser-scanned Nords. Epic.

And then I see that several people are pissed off about that ? I hate people.

 

[RaceNut]

It sounds like "pack mentality" is kicking in with a bunch of spoiled brats. It feels a bit like they are looking a gift-horse in the mouth and then complaining about the gift being long overdue.

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

Seems to me that when Kunos says that multiplayer and AI isn't ready yet they mean it. And it probably won't be ready until somebody wakes up at night with a "Holy Eureka!" moment...unfortunately for us those moments don't come with a timetable letting you know when they will happen....Not sure why the game being delayed for a year makes people think that everything should be ready; if anything it shows how much longer than planned things like this can take.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Seems to me that when Kunos says that multiplayer and AI isn't ready yet they mean it. And it probably won't be ready until somebody wakes up at night with a "Holy Eureka!" moment...unfortunately for us those moments don't come with a timetable letting you know when they will happen....Not sure why the game being delayed for a year makes people think that everything should be ready; if anything it shows how much longer than planned things like this can take.

I like the cut of your jib!
I wish more people could realize that. It's seems a majority expect everything yesterday
A bit off topic with the announcement of nords today does that include the gp circuit as we'll ?

Cheers

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

GP circuit will be released as part of V1.0 so we will be getting it in the next few weeks

 

[Rodrigo Pires]

It's all the same fundamentally.

Dave

No, especially when you talk about the Mclaren as you said before.

How many suspensions desings are out there? You have to model every single one of them? Ideally yes, but there´s no resources to do that right now... First you take the most used. How many cars have fancy suspension like the mclaren?

What would you choose, a good "turbo model" or hybrid systems like modern F1 and LMP1?

Eventually they will be modelled, but until then, you need to get the "classic" stuff right, and work with that.

I bet that if you look at the mclaren gt3 files, it will be pretty much spot on, why? because its a popular design.