Are modders embracing RF2 like they did the first one?

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Question is in the title really, rFactor had a MASSIVE amount of mods (cars, tracks, UI elements etc etc) available due to a lot of modders choosing to work with it. How has the reception of RF2 been among modders, have they embraced it and can we expect to see as many mods for RF2 as time goes by? Or have most/many/some modders abandoned ship and will be working with AC instead?

Asking because the amount of stuff on rfactorcentral.com atm is quite scarce still and the barebone game doesn't have a lot of content that entices me tbh, but as a platform for modders it seems interesting.

 

[t.o.]

Right now there seems to be a "war" among modders and the community as to whether modders should go "payware" or not. Some mods have already came out and are free and some payware mods have also come out with varying degrees of quality. I think some modders are waiting to see how that shakes out as well as how rF2 shakes out.

I for one hope things stay the way they were with rF1. Top quality free mods that all could enjoy.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I wouldn't mind paying for great mods, but with that comes a load of problems. I had this thought that the game that introduces something like the Apple iPhone AppStore for modders would be stinking rich, making a platform where we gamers could easily find, buy and install mods for the game just like on the iPhone, with pricing like $1-3 for a car or track and more for full mods like F1 seasons etc. Problem with paying for mods is licensing, modders rarely pay license fees to the license holders for the content they make, which ain't a problem for many of them as long as it's given away for free, but if the modders are making money on someones trademark you can be sure they want a piece of the cake, or rather will put you out of business quickly.

 

[FlashQld]

I think the modders have become tired of the "we expect and we want for nothing generation" of users these days and it seems that modders put a lot of effort in to this for nothing. There seems to be no respect nor thanks these days. Yes I agree modders are making money on someones trademark but that only happens if people contribute but that seems a rarity these days. Most mods get ripped off by someone to make money elsewhere, simulator houses etc.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

As long as the rippers never get stopped it will continue. There is a big responsibility needed from the community, leagues, websites, modders and developers.

Its just waiting for the first claim from a license holder and then the handbag fight can begin. People have been warned for years and years and apart from our own site, Nogrip and a tiny amount of other sites our beloved sim racing community seems to run on illegal content nowadays.

At some point it stops. Lawsuits will be thrown, small sim racing companies will go out of business or we all end up playing on a console with Forza Part 24.

I don't blame the majority that has no clue about origins of content but those that extremely well know what is allowed and whats not are deliberately pushing it or sticking their heads in the sand.

"Ich habe es nicht gewusst" doesn't apply for them.

 

[Justin Swan]

At some point it stops. Lawsuits will be thrown, small sim racing companies will go out of business or we all end up playing on a console with Forza Part 24.

Noooooooooooooooo!

 

[Some1]

As a modeler-modder, I was a little disappointed with the graphical aspects of rF2. Sure, I didn't expect it to look like Crysis3 or pCARS, but all these little graphics related things that annoyed me in rF1, are mostly still there in rF2. For example, these stupid static mesh based light glares and buggy realtime environment map rendering, to name a few.

So, I think the lack of mods is also because many modders including me are waiting for issues to be solved, before releasing content. That's why there aren't many good quality mods me thinks...

 

[MarcG]

Most things are in Limbo with RF2 for several reasons:

- It is/is'nt a beta argument flying around, seems like in the Summer it'll be "officially" released so we're left hanging on....
- The modding system is a let down, I can see why ISI have gone this way but to me its just not properly thought out, as though they dived in without thinking of the consequeces. If they asked the modding community for ideas on the way it should be done then I'm sure it would've been better overall.
- Keeping everything locked away in MAS files is no good for the part-time modder, changing a simple one line in a file is now redundant and you need to go through the gash effort of re-packaging mods and rendering your Sim unplayable online...not everyon has enough space for two installs nor wants two installs.
- Graphics are better than RF1 but not exactly brilliant, sure they'll "do" in a sense but its not a big advancement over RF1 which came out in 2005, that sort of puts you off a bit.
- Lack of Progress is another biggy, sure there have been optimisations to the engine and things have moved a long but its been painfully slow, especially when modders are waiting for that "Beta" tag to end so they can properly get on with it as apposed to waiting and seeing if the next build deems their previous work null & void.
- Lack of communication, simply not good enough in terms of knowing which direction this Sim is going in with regards to modding, is there gonna be alterations to the system? yes? no? No answers at all even though theres been thread after thread about it on their very own forums....see the word Limbo above.

Whilst RF2 does have some of that familiarity from RF1 I know some mod teams who are simply waiting to see what AC v1.0 is like now, had RF2 hit the ground running then I'm sure those mod teams would've been well and truly underway and we'd be a lot further down the road than we are, ISIs excuse is "well you knew you were buying into a beta"...

Having said all that (and as I've said before) ISI are great in what they get right, what they get wrong though they simply suck at and not knowing whats happening is a right PITA

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Thanks for some great answers, I can see why modders would wait to see how AC turns out before they choose to put several hundreds of hours down on their mod for a certain game.
By the way, RF2 is officially out of beta, at least it's being sold as a full game with no mention of the word "beta" on the purchase site, but they still are saying it's a "evolving product" (which I reckon it will be till the day they just plain give up on it).

 

[t.o.]

I think modders will have a rude awakening when AC comes out. I read somewhere there's going to be alot of features missing when they game comes out.

 

[Marco Bijl]

Well, to be honest, if thats the case, the modders are naive...

RaceRoomExperience -> A lot missing on release
rFactor2 -> A lot missing on release
Formula Truck -> A lot missing on release

All released games have limited features when initially released. As a modder, you have to look past that, same as a gamer imo.

 

[Mapu]

I think modders will have a rude awakening when AC comes out. I read somewhere there's going to be alot of features missing when they game comes out.

It's not like Kunos didn't say that some features will be missing in the release version. However at the same time Kunos have announced that they will add "missing features" in future updates. At least the release version of Assetto Corsa will have all core elements in place to provide solid gameplay and therefore I am sure that AC can not be called pre-release.

I don't think that dedicated modders are so naive to not check a plattform beforehand. I am sure they're going to create their products on software which is most likely going to last for a long time. At least I would.

Anyway I can see a huge issue coming up when mod-creators go commercial, creating/recreating non-licensed content.

I completely agree with Bram here.

[...] There is a big responsibility needed from the community, leagues, websites, modders and developers. [...]

Last but not least, someone shouldn't forget that rFactor was pretty low on mods too when it was released; patience is key.

 

[Marco Bijl]

I think Marcel hit a few key elements here.
Patience, one of the most important things. In time, it will be all ok, but we (as in we people in general) do not have patience. We want it now, expecially when we know its around. Nature of the beast I think.

The commercial going will be imo something that a few modders will try to see if they can get a small amount of money out of it. However, I think that it will not be lasting (for the simple modders that is), simply because of the Licensing issues. As soon as you ask 1 cent, it's a commercial project, with totally different rules. I already see some lawsuits coming . That should kill the trend we see now from some of the smaller modding teams.

Last there is 1 thing which is imo very important with rf2.

I personally believe a LOT of great modders and teams have waited for, and are still waiting, for rf2 to go final. Take a look at the line of events since the first release.

- Official first release
- Presentation of (custom by members made) manuals for modding
- A lot of announcements of projects
- Update after update from ISI, with changes in basic structure each time, making all mods useless again
- modder after modder stopped, and announced their projects to be released "when rf2 goes gold"

Same for me. A simple example
I have just about 85% of all the files and images ready to release a complete new rf2 GUI. As the base keeps changing and changing, I stopped developing it. When I get the feeling it's stable, and definate, I will work on it again.

So, what I think, is that at the end of 2013, there will be a totally different situation in regards to rf2. Give it (and the modders) some time to get adjusted, and get used to it. Then content will come.
Although I know there is a lot coming (e.g. AC, R3E, PCars, Formula Truck), I am confident that rf2 will be one of the major sims for the coming years. Realisme is so high (when all is optimized), so I am sure it will be here to stay, and modders will be working with it.

 

[RaceNut]

Great post Marco - explains so much about the state of modding rF2 and other sims.

 

[Miroslav Davidovic]

Marco Bijl , how do you handle the resolution in the rF2 GUI. I am also working on a GUI but not sure what to do there. With bigger resolution then the default one everything looks much better but I don't know how it works for all monitors then.

 

[Marco Bijl]

I have to say I am not sure anymore. have to look into that. Stopped with mine after build 69 or the one after I believe, so it has been some time...

 

[t.o.]

It's not like Kunos didn't say that some features will be missing in the release version. However at the same time Kunos have announced that they will add "missing features" in future updates. At least the release version of Assetto Corsa will have all core elements in place to provide solid gameplay and therefore I am sure that AC can not be called pre-release.

All core elements? I consider pitstops to be a core element, and from my understanding it wont be there in release for AC.

 

[Mapu]

alright then... elements that have been promised by Kunos to be in AC at initial release

alas funny; you quote a full paragraph without reading it completely (as you would notice that I was speaking about what elements Kunos is promising. I can agree that "all" can be misleading but reading the whole paragraph should make it clear. so no need for nitpicking)

back to rF2? ----->