Anyone here also "drift" a bit?

[AndreiRS]

I'm just curious, most people I know just hate this haha, I only don't understand why... But since I don't have time to join a league and practice for regular races and I was a bit bored, I'm drifting. I started on drift when I saw some videos, like that from Stefan Roser with a RUF at Nordschleife, actually there are 2, one with the yellowbird and a new one with the RT12.

The biggest problem is to find a good setup, I'm not sure, but I think Race series cars don't have any kind of limited slip differential.

Then I made a "mod", based on the BMW E46 from STCC, because the original cars had not much power to spin wheels............................. on 4th gear... :thumbup:

So anyone else here likes drifting? I even saw a server called "drift4" something, but I think it is offline now.

Hm I don't speak english very well. Maybe I wrote something wrong...

BTW this is almost the same I posted on another forum some months ago, but there is a lot more people around here. So more chances of finding someone interested.

Thanks.

 

[April Dillon]

I agree with you, I enjoy it. I think the competitions which require judges are a load of crap though. I much prefer competitions being in differences that can be measured. Like the timing and grid order used to figure out where everyone finishes in racing. The plugins many LFS drift servers run achieve this though.

I always thought it was a great way to practice car control. Being able to handle a car when everything goes wrong, compensating for shifts in balance, can prepare you for some low grip situations, such as being caught by surprise by rain while you're on slicks. Although it pays to avoid 'drifting' in racing conditions, it's always worth being able to cope with it in the event that it does happen by mistake.

In some cars, I've found it's pretty much unavoidable. The Porsche 917 in the World Sports Car 1970 mod for rFactor is permanently drifting slightly. And the Retro Pack's Corvette, I can barely keep that thing facing forwards in the corners. Same goes for the production muscle cars. So instead, I just let them do what they want, as I find it tends to be faster than trying to make it do things my way.

 

[Günthar Rowe]

Have a look at the the V8 Escort mod, you can drift these Curitiba no problem

 

[Günthar Rowe]

I think that I'll have to find a RX7 mod to bring to Race07

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

The biggest problem is to find a good setup, I'm not sure, but I think Race series cars don't have any kind of limited slip differential.

In the third setup menu tab, look for lock/coast and preload = LSD.

 

[AndreiRS]

Hahah nice, I will try the escort v8.

A RX7 would be nice, actually there is a rfactor mod with most japanese cars, but I think they will never convert it to race07... :/

===

I'm not really sure about the LSD differential, sorry for saying that, it is because I saw once a video showing how it works, when the rear wheels are in different surfaces, like one in the wet and the other in dry asphalt, even accelerating, the car don't spin, but it spins in race or gtr... It was not about traction control, it really was a video about lsd.

In another video a guy shows the difference between a car with lsd and one without it. The car with lsd drifts almost alone, goes pretty stable. And in the car without it it is almost impossible to keep a drift, or the car spins or it loses speed. That is what happens in race07 and gtr2. :/

I did a video sometime ago with my old pc, it is almost the best I can do in race07, now I discovered better car setups, but I still can't keep a drift for a long time, the max is around 5 seconds, or even a bit more near adenauer forst, I start at the climb, then there is a open corner to the left, a corner to the right, and 2 small corners, the first to the left and the second to the right, that one with a big curb.

Here is the video, old graphics card...

 

[AndreiRS]

I agree with you, I enjoy it. I think the competitions which require judges are a load of crap though. I much prefer competitions being in differences that can be measured. Like the timing and grid order used to figure out where everyone finishes in racing. The plugins many LFS drift servers run achieve this though.

I always thought it was a great way to practice car control. Being able to handle a car when everything goes wrong, compensating for shifts in balance, can prepare you for some low grip situations, such as being caught by surprise by rain while you're on slicks. Although it pays to avoid 'drifting' in racing conditions, it's always worth being able to cope with it in the event that it does happen by mistake.

In some cars, I've found it's pretty much unavoidable. The Porsche 917 in the World Sports Car 1970 mod for rFactor is permanently drifting slightly. And the Retro Pack's Corvette, I can barely keep that thing facing forwards in the corners. Same goes for the production muscle cars. So instead, I just let them do what they want, as I find it tends to be faster than trying to make it do things my way.

Thats true, now I can keep the car on the track if something happens. Before practicing drift I was crashing a lot.

 

[April Dillon]

A RX7 would be nice, actually there is a rfactor mod with most japanese cars, but I think they will never convert it to race07... :/

True, but they may be happy to let someone else convert their mod to Race 07 instead. As that isn't unheard of.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Usually the videos that show the difference between lock and LSD have their "values" similar to solid rearaxle vs full slip, ie the tire with less resistance will spin at 100% torque. Just try to put these values: lock 0% / coast 0% / preload 1 and then max them all... The trick is that with 0% lock the inside wheel (usually) will start to slip and spin. The spin gathers a lot of inertia and when the torque between wheels change for ex via mass transfer, the 0% lock will change to the other side wheel while the inside is still spinning.. It may start to fluctuate between sides (although usually only one wheel spins full time) and the overall grip is reduced significantly. The tire may continue to spin even if you lift the throttle unless you push clutch and brakes simultaneously to stop spin, usually the last ditch effort totally in vain... Also using autoclutch can contribute as it's out of your control, it can engage at games will in any situations..

Look for your replays and check if inside wheel is leaving skidmarks when you spin. If the spin is extremely hard to stop and you're sure you lifted the throttle soon enough, the answer may be too low lock. Doing replay runs can be very helpful; do 3-4 laps and check the replay for mistakes, specially when the required conditions are met. Don't exit immediately after the spin, leave couple of seconds, something i have found usefull (the replay loops to start..). Use the numberpad and cursor keys (0 and , in keypad for slow and slower replay, cursor keys for fast forward, rewind and pause) with whatever camera you like. In wingman angle the numbers in keypad control the camera angle and distance, veru useful option..

I had LSD problem (haha, yeah, dopey pun)a while ago when i was still using less lock and still was spinning in the exits. Had to really look at MoTec & replays to find the reason. Now i prefer higher locks as they produce more predictable situations. Also my drifting has increased and improved..

 

[Ondrej Kapal]

take Audi R8, go to the Nordschleife and drift like never before! I do all the time on 100MBit Nordschleife server with practice session only

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Changing these lines to those values in your controlset file (my docs\SimBin\Race07\Userdata\Controlsets\ and look for something.rcs, make backup first!) you can feel the reartire grip the best:

FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force grip factor="0.20000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.

PS: I use values closer to 0.5 in RWD's...I haven't got the default values but they are somewhere around: 0.7 and 0.9, ie most of FFB comes from front tire grip. Retro Max Corvette and BMW are the best drifters, Audi is good too..

 

[AndreiRS]

Ah sorry about the big quotes, but I don't know how to hide part of them.

True, but they may be happy to let someone else convert their mod to Race 07 instead. As that isn't unheard of.

Hmm, well I can't really do that, even with a permission, because I don't know how to, but if it is easy maybe I can learn. I will see if I can find someone to do this...

Usually the videos that show the difference between lock and LSD have their "values" similar to solid rearaxle vs full slip, ie the tire with less resistance will spin at 100% torque. Just try to put these values: lock 0% / coast 0% / preload 1 and then max them all... The trick is that with 0% lock the inside wheel (usually) will start to slip and spin. The spin gathers a lot of inertia and when the torque between wheels change for ex via mass transfer, the 0% lock will change to the other side wheel while the inside is still spinning.. It may start to fluctuate between sides (although usually only one wheel spins full time) and the overall grip is reduced significantly. The tire may continue to spin even if you lift the throttle unless you push clutch and brakes simultaneously to stop spin, usually the last ditch effort totally in vain... Also using autoclutch can contribute as it's out of your control, it can engage at games will in any situations..

Look for your replays and check if inside wheel is leaving skidmarks when you spin. If the spin is extremely hard to stop and you're sure you lifted the throttle soon enough, the answer may be too low lock. Doing replay runs can be very helpful; do 3-4 laps and check the replay for mistakes, specially when the required conditions are met. Don't exit immediately after the spin, leave couple of seconds, something i have found usefull (the replay loops to start..). Use the numberpad and cursor keys (0 and , in keypad for slow and slower replay, cursor keys for fast forward, rewind and pause) with whatever camera you like. In wingman angle the numbers in keypad control the camera angle and distance, veru useful option..

I had LSD problem (haha, yeah, dopey pun)a while ago when i was still using less lock and still was spinning in the exits. Had to really look at MoTec & replays to find the reason. Now i prefer higher locks as they produce more predictable situations. Also my drifting has increased and improved..

Everyone seems to be having problems with lsd here hahaha.
In the BMW e46 from stcc or wtcc the max lock is 40%, I think that is a bit low. I have been using the replays as you said and I can see in most replays that only one wheel is leaving skidmarks, but I can't set more lock on that car, thats why I made a "mod", it isn't really mine, I just got that e46, and some parts from other cars, engine and tires from BMW M3 GT2, now I just set the lock to something like 50, 75 or even 100%. I still need to realise why I can't get it to work with 6 gears, but maybe 5 gears are good for torque...

In normal races without drifting I really don't understand the lock, coast thing, the car is oversteering, I lower it, the car handles good, then I change it back and I don't spin anymore?! That is weird, maybe it has something to do with getting used to the car and track. I also prefer higher settings, too low lock and the car seems underpowered when exiting corners, as if I was stepping on the clutch. I will try the auto clutch.

take Audi R8, go to the Nordschleife and drift like never before! I do all the time on 100MBit Nordschleife server with practice session only

Man I have seen you there a lot of times hehaheh, but I always get the viper, with some setup changes it is pretty good.

Changing these lines to those values in your controlset file (my docs\SimBin\Race07\Userdata\Controlsets\ and look for something.rcs, make backup first!) you can feel the reartire grip the best:


PS: I use values closer to 0.5 in RWD's...I haven't got the default values but they are somewhere around: 0.7 and 0.9, ie most of FFB comes from front tire grip. Retro Max Corvette and BMW are the best drifters, Audi is good too..

Wow you wouldn't believe, but I already did some changes in these lines, it feels a lot more realistic, now I will try your setting. After my first changes in these lines, that lame effect when you "let the wheel go" disappeared, I don't know the word in english, but a lot of people talks about this effect, where the wheel keep turning left and right when the car is in a strait line.

PS: Do you use 0.5 in both lines?

 

[April Dillon]

Hmm, well I can't really do that, even with a permission, because I don't know how to, but if it is easy maybe I can learn. I will see if I can find someone to do this...

Hehe neither do I. I may have a play around with the existing cars, and see if I can equip them for drifting a bit better. Figure it's worth a try.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Changing these lines to those values in your controlset file (my docs\SimBin\Race07\Userdata\Controlsets\ and look for something.rcs, make backup first!) you can feel the reartire grip the best:

FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force grip factor="0.20000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.

PS: I use values closer to 0.5 in RWD's...I haven't got the default values but they are somewhere around: 0.7 and 0.9, ie most of FFB comes from front tire grip. Retro Max Corvette and BMW are the best drifters, Audi is good too..

Wow you wouldn't believe, but I already did some changes in these lines, it feels a lot more realistic, now I will try your setting. After my first changes in these lines, that lame effect when you "let the wheel go" disappeared, I don't know the word in english, but a lot of people talks about this effect, where the wheel keep turning left and right when the car is in a strait line.

PS: Do you use 0.5 in both lines?[/QUOTE]

Depends, with GT class it is now .65 on tire grip, .5 front/rear balance. FWD is .7/.7, F1 is straight .5/.5 and Retros .6/.55. When i tweak them i move by 0.05 increments, FFB balance is pretty reactive setting. It's too bad that these are not adjustable ingame but you have to edit them externally.. A small software could be done that only sets those hidden but absolutely crucial FFB settings.. Also my rig has a habit of crashing when fiddling with control settings ingame... Another reason to have external 3rd party software for FFB..

To all who haven't read this guide and therefore must read it now!!:FFB guide v1_0 by juls.zip It has the hidden FFB settings revealed and explained. If someone knows the author of this guide, buy him a beer!

EDIT: I did a new set of wheel setups, this time the values got to 0.3 and 0.5 for GT class..FFB maxed, steering force 80.

 

[AndreiRS]

I'm using those settings, they feel a lot better, thanks man!

===

Wow!

I just discovered something that really changes the driving feeling in race series.
Sometime ago I was trying to make a drift mod, with that BMW E46 from STCC, engine from M3 GT2, tyres from GT2 also, another set of tyres from Viper (the production one, not the racing version). Not really a mod, but a copy and paste from simbin files, I didn't want to create something unrealistic, that is why I only used their files. Then after sometime I start wondering why the tyr file looks like this:

These lines are related to grip.

From BMW M3 GT2 I think...
...
Name="Slick Compound"
Front:
DryLatLong=(1.770, 1.730) // Lateral/longitudinal coefficients in dry weather was 700
WetLatLong=(1.470, 1.430)
...
Rear:
DryLatLong=(1.850, 1.790)
WetLatLong=(1.550, 1.490)

- What they mean with "Lateral/longitudinal coefficients in dry weather was 700"?
- Are those the realistic values? Or maybe not, but they were changed to balance cars?
- Why the values are different? They are not supposed to be equal, or maybe longitudinal value even greater?

In Audi R8 rear wheels (production car), the difference is even bigger, it is around 100 not 60 like in M3 GT2 wheels. But only in rear tyres, I think they did this because audi r8 is 4wd, so with more grip on the front wheels, it is easier to drive and drift and all. I tested the audi grip values on a RWD car, and........ it is terrible, you turn just a little and the car spins like a soap.

Then I took a look at a mod that I think is very realistic in some aspects. And I found that the longitudinal values are a bit greater than the lateral values, like 30 or 40. So I decided to test this on my drift mod.

First I used the Audi R8 (production car) values as I said above. Lateral grip a lot greater than longitudinal. Not good at all, impossible to control after the car start sliding.

Then I used the Viper SRT 10 values, because the production Viper is already pretty good for drifting. Lateral grip still greater than longitudinal, but not that much as in Audi. It feels a lot better, now it is possible to slide for more time...

Then I decided to change the values and set the longitudinal grip to a greater value than lateral grip, man!!! Now it feels a lot better to me, I don't know if this is realistic, that is why I'm creating this post, maybe someone who is an engineer or know about these things could explain if I'm doing something plausible or not. I think it feels a lot better when driving like in a race, and also when drifting, now I can slide through the whole track lol.

I still have to test with equal values. But seriously, someone should really test these settings, my problem with race series was always one: the car slides too much "laterally" when you step on the gas, and now it looks like that problem has gone, I'm not sure yet, because after my first test I closed the game and came here hahah. Still need to test more... Sorry for the long post or if I wrote something wrong.

BTW probably someone is thinking, why the car slides less when racing and is more controllable when drifting with more longitudinal grip? Should not be as it already is, with more lateral grip? Well I have no idea, probably it has something do to with vector calculus, or the way the game do the maths, I don't know, but it feels better.

 

[Günthar Rowe]

DryLatLong=
Maximum Coefficients of Friction (CoF) for this compound on dry pavement in the lateral and longitudinal directions. Note that in simple terms, grip is coefficient time’s vertical load on the tyre.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Easier to think by what they affect: Longitudinal = throttle, brakes. Lateral = cornering. Longitudinal is grip in the "forward/backwards" direction, lateral is sideways.

The values adjust the grip "map" that is found in the beginning of .TYR file, so that's why those values can change drastically between cars and classes. I think with drifting in mind, the lateral should be lower than longitudinal. I noticed when fiddling with MMG/RR mashup that the grip co-efficients have some sort of max/min threshold, going beyond them will make the car behaviour very unrealistic. That threshold propably don't actually exist but it feels like it does (the actual algorithms may cause a sudden drop/spike when the values exceed the range it was designed for but that's a big maybe).Try making changes in 0.1 increments.

 

[AndreiRS]

Thank you, I'm getting better results, neven been so easy.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-TngNJ9bjYEs/T.../88OjYGnDkP4/3%2520wheels%2520drift%2520b.gif

 

[Martin Leyfield]

Does this count as a drift? It is front wheel drive:

This one is better. I did this in qually for a race in front of a server admin just to try and show off.

I wish I had the skill of Andrei917. He chooses cars that are very hard to drift.

I would love there to be a RaceDepartment drift event at Hitchin Town:

Another good track is Puebla08. Maybe Racedeparment could hold a drift champoinship!. Here with a Viper producton class and a modified min for more power and four wheel drive.

Round 3 Hockenheim Kurz. This 4WD Mini has BMW CSL engine power and sound and 5 speed gears.

Round 4 Curitiba. The R8 production class is another 4 wheel drive car. I know it's not propper drifting with 4 wheel drive but its easy to learn with.

The Volvo Amazon from the Retro Pack is easy to drift. Here it is at SHIFT2U Ambush Canyon For Race07:

Front wheel drive handbrake drift

A complete lap of Machwerk in the production Viper with a few drifts.

Maybe also have a competition for 2 wheeling.

 

[AndreiRS]

Aw I just wrote a post but it gone to somewhere but not here. :/

Man nice videos, they are all yours? Thanks for the links

The mini is very cool, hahaha. I think they already used FWD cars in drift competitions.

Well I need to sleep now, but if you want to try my mod which is still a beta, I will post the link, thank you, looks like you really enjoy drifting too.