AI Too Fast Or Am I Doing Something Wrong Here?

[TheMaroon47]

So I recently pit a Lamborghini Huracan ST vs the Huracan GT3 on 80% difficulty, 5% variation and 65% aggression around 5 laps of the Red Bull Ring GP. In the Huracan ST, I was around 2 whole seconds slower than the GT3, making the gap at the end around 10 seconds. Then I used the Merc AMG GT3 which I'm more familiar with and with a good setup, still 1.5 seconds slower than the Huracan GT3 on 80% difficulty. What am I missing here? Also, is it just me or does increasing the aggression sort of make a magic bubble around your car where the AI gets extra grip into corners?

 

[TheMaroon47]

I use a Logitech G27. I've read up on FFB clipping a bit but still don't really understand what it is.

 

[RMR1]

You simply loose all ffb information when the wheel clips too much. The wheel just goes numb.
I suggest you try the FFBClip app, which you can download here:
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ffbclip-app.7910/

 

[PhilS13]

1.31s are AI at 100% so there is something wrong.

The slider shouldn't be resetting itself to a given value either afaik.

 

[TheMaroon47]

Right, so after a few more tests, I can confirm the AI problem was probably on my end. What I think happened was the slider reset from 80--->92% (somehow or perhaps I didn't notice) and the 5% variation just stuck the slider to 97% resulting in the 1.31s 2nd lap from the AI. It hasn't happened since yesterday.

After following some of the advice from you lovely folk regarding my driving style and car setup as well as the gain on my wheel, I changed it up a bit and tweaked the setup and went round 0.7s quicker. Any more feedback would be appreciated

Note: I didn't make the most out of Castrol Edge, Remus and Rindt but it's the best I could manage for now.

 

[RasmusP]

Glad you solved it
To your wheel:

I use a Logitech G27. I've read up on FFB clipping a bit but still don't really understand what it is.

Your wheel has a certain range of force that the motors in it can produce. That is your profiler program where you have the gain slider being at 100% at default.
Games are set to output a certain range too.
I have no idea if there is a standard but for audio you have "line level" which goes from minus infinity to 0 dB. Maybe you've seen that displayed on receivers.

So clipping happens when you exceed the maximum of either the profiler input (which is the output of the game!) or when you amplify the ffb in the profiler to above the maximum of the motors.
In both cases the forces above that level will get cut out (profiler) or will get compressed (AC afaik).

In the end imagine you have a corner ffb output of 70% of that range. Now you have a kerb that kicks in at another 30%.
With your settings you will have the cornering ffb already at 100% and the 30% coming from the kerbs will just be lost!

That was a tough and probably not well written explanation but anyway for the solution:
Profiler on 100%, 900° in profiler and in Assetto Corsa, 100% gain in Assetto Corsa!
Then probably add between 5-12% minimum force until your center position feels good.

Download the ffb clip add, set it to automatic (but NOT dynamic!) and it will dial in good car specific gain settings for each car when you drive it
If you don't want to use it just set the car specific ffb to 100% too! (numpad + or - while driving!)

If you want to have more detailed settings that might feel better for you, click on my downloads. But that guide is complicated and you have to edit files etc which I won't recommend for the beginning!!!

Hope that helps
Summary: everything on 100%, 900° and a little bit of minimum force

 

[TheMaroon47]

Thanks RasmusP . Believe it or not, I understood your explanation pretty well. I am currently using the FFB Clip app and the gain is pretty good as far as I can tell. Tried dynamic and it just felt weird when it dipped the gain around corners Past me set the AC Gain to 110 for some reason

 

[BhZ]

Right, so after a few more tests, I can confirm the AI problem was probably on my end. What I think happened was the slider reset from 80--->92% (somehow or perhaps I didn't notice) and the 5% variation just stuck the slider to 97% resulting in the 1.31s 2nd lap from the AI. It hasn't happened since yesterday.

After following some of the advice from you lovely folk regarding my driving style and car setup as well as the gain on my wheel, I changed it up a bit and tweaked the setup and went round 0.7s quicker. Any more feedback would be appreciated

Note: I didn't make the most out of Castrol Edge, Remus and Rindt but it's the best I could manage for now.

There is still one major mistake you keep doing: you don't use the full width of the track. Watch again the laps you sent us and look at how you don't stay to the far left at t1 for example. Use the curbs, both in corner entry, apex and corner exit. You will carry way more speed into the corner and you'll be able to accelerate earlier. Another thing is that you move towards the turn while braking. This ruins your corner entry and compromise the entire laptime.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@TheMaroon47

 

[TheMaroon47]

There is still one major mistake you keep doing: you don't use the full width of the track. Watch again the laps you sent us and look at how you don't stay to the far left at t1 for example. Use the curbs, both in corner entry, apex and corner exit. You will carry way more speed into the corner and you'll be able to accelerate earlier. Another thing is that you move towards the turn while braking. This ruins your corner entry and compromise the entire laptime.

So that's what you meant by not using the full width of the track. Though I thought you weren't supposed to brake on the kerbs as it's more bumpy and increases the chances of a lock-up? I know some kerbs are bumpier than others and I always seem to lock up when I even slightly touch the kerbs at Castrol Edge.

 

[TheMaroon47]

@TheMaroon47

I've actually watched all of the Go Faster videos. Very educational indeed.

 

[BhZ]

So that's what you meant by not using the full width of the track. Though I thought you weren't supposed to brake on the kerbs as it's more bumpy and increases the chances of a lock-up? I know some kerbs are bumpier than others and I always seem to lock up when I even slightly touch the kerbs at Castrol Edge.

Without abs could be, testing is needed. But even then, you are far from the edge of the tarmac anyway and on corner exit you still don't use them.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I've actually watched all of the Go Faster videos. Very educational indeed.

And you still are not using all the track, maybe it is time to watch again.
This video in particular unlocked some speed for me, took me from back pack to mid pack in no time.
Good luck in your quest.

 

[Mr Deap]

I'm no alien by any means, but at quick glance. You're getting on throttle too early, which is causing you to understear and destroying your corner exit speed, which in turn destroys your straight line speed. Turn in later and be more patient on the throttle. How much wing are you running on this setup?

And some group of people telling me that I'm wrong when I claim that slow in fast out doesn't work for most people. If you make a sticky on every tread about bad lap time result, it's 99.9% of the case.

For most players, they simply need to trail brake longer by carrying more speed with less brake input(aka bomb dive). The car will understeer less. It's also important that the car doesn't show lateral G-force in the direction of the corner before starting to release the brake slowly.

Lift off"neutral" momentum is super important & simply need wait to accelerate right in the middle of the apex or after. If the laptime is faster, it mean the player is too early on the throttle. Once you get the timing about right you can slowly start to accelerate a bit more early, but should avoid giving acceleration force before meeting the apex to get a symmetric radius for the corner.

Feel free to click disagree, but work 95% of the time.

 

[BhZ]

For most players, they simply need to trail brake longer by carrying more speed with less brake input(aka bomb dive).

What? Trail brake and divebomb have nothing to do with each other. It's not like "you trailbrake=you divebomb".

should avoid giving acceleration force before meeting the apex to get a symmetric radius for the corner.

First you speak about slow in, fast out and then you say "get a symmetric radius for the corner". When you "apply" the slow in, fast out, you won't get a symmetric radius for the corner, as you say. If you do, you are doing something very wrong.

 

[BhZ]

@TheMaroon47 It would be better if you sticked to the default setup. With the changes you've made we don't know if you've actually compromised the general balance of the car and part of your driving style might come from the fact that the car doesn't behave as it should. As i always say at this stage it's better to ignore the setup (except few easy things to handle like tyre pressure and wings at times) and focus solely on your driving. More experienced drivers often starts to work on the setup too early and once they go back to the default setup, they actually go faster than their "advanced" one (i've been in that situation).

 

[Mr Deap]

What? Trail brake and divebomb have nothing to do with each other. It's not like "you trailbrake=you divebomb".

First you speak about slow in, fast out and then you say "get a symmetric radius for the corner". When you "apply" the slow in, fast out, you won't get a symmetric radius for the corner, as you say. If you do, you are doing something very wrong.

Result will show the obvious. I lost fate & it's a lost cause.

 

[TheMaroon47]

@TheMaroon47 It would be better if you sticked to the default setup. With the changes you've made we don't know if you've actually compromised the general balance of the car and part of your driving style might come from the fact that the car doesn't behave as it should. As i always say at this stage it's better to ignore the setup (except few easy things to handle like tyre pressure and wings at times) and focus solely on your driving. More experienced drivers often starts to work on the setup too early and once they go back to the default setup, they actually go faster than their "advanced" one (i've been in that situation).

I will try that, thanks. Though I haven't really changed it too much from the default. Just have some slightly higher values for the bump, ARBs and diff power.

 

[Mr Deap]

@TheMaroon47, you're driving way to smooth with 1:1 steering & brake input. You need more brake input to make the front hold. Brake more late, use it to turn & understeer on purpose. Just make sure you're following the same racing line while doing it.

Bomb dive with the brake, more lock with the steer & lift off. You'll figure the right timing & method. Also use the rumble strips during the braking phase.

It almost look like a joke post.
​

 

[Tberg]

So I recently pit a Lamborghini Huracan ST vs the Huracan GT3 on 80% difficulty, 5% variation and 65% aggression around 5 laps of the Red Bull Ring GP. In the Huracan ST, I was around 2 whole seconds slower than the GT3, making the gap at the end around 10 seconds. Then I used the Merc AMG GT3 which I'm more familiar with and with a good setup, still 1.5 seconds slower than the Huracan GT3 on 80% difficulty. What am I missing here? Also, is it just me or does increasing the aggression sort of make a magic bubble around your car where the AI gets extra grip into corners?

I think that the ST is simply slower than the GT3 cars.
1.5-2 seconds sounds about right.
So, you have to be a lot faster than just "beating" the AI, as you're in the slower car too.