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AI management

Discussion in 'F1 2013 - The Game' started by skidmark33, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. I apologise if this should be in the Wish List discussion :unsure: but it's something I feel quite strongly about and I want our friends at Codies to read it... (a little selfish I know :whistling: )

    If F1 2013 has just one improvement over F1 2012, let it be AI Management.

    The heart of a good racing game, whether it be ultra-arcade or hard-core sim, is the ability to race closely and competitively with others (AI or human). In close racing if I drive my best (consistent lap times with no major errors) I want to be rewarded with a strong finish. If I drive through a gravel trap I want to lose positions.

    Because we are all so different in skills (not just overall but from track to track and even corner to corner), programming 'close racing' for everyone is nigh on impossible.

    When I first bought F1 2010 I loved it, but gave up on it when I realised my options were to lose by a mile on 'Legend' or win by a mile on 'Professional'. Not only that, on some tracks I was winning in a Lotus and at others getting lapped in a Red Bull. I gave up when my Lotus was being held up by Alonso's Ferrari as we went through Eau Rouge! I stopped playing - I was bored.

    And then I found some free third-party software that enabled me to adjust the AI not just track by track but corner by corner. At last - I had a racing game. I played three full seasons and loved it. If I made a small mistake I paid the price. If I was at my best I won. In my last race I chased Lewis Hamilton from a consistent 0.3 seconds behind for a whole race at Brazil. I passed him on the last lap. At the end I was sweating, but I won a tight race because I drove well.

    Codemasters can't program a game to give me that experience, but as the third-party software showed they could include a module that enables me to 'program' it. When I buy a new suit off the rack I need to shorten the trousers and bring in the waist a little. That's what I need to do with a racing game as well. Everyone does.

    Papyrus NASCAR Racing 2003 Season (the best racing game ever in my opinion!) was made 10 years ago and you could adjust the AI track by track (in the game). The EA sports F1 series enabled that as well through easily understood and accessible txt files.

    I've just bought F1 2012 and there is a LOT to love about it. BUT I'm back to where I started in a no mans land between Legend and Pro. My AI choice is to win every time or lose every time. And that's no choice at all.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Bram

    Roaring Pipes Maniacs | #27 Staff Premium Member

    There is one downside to these adjustable AI levels: you don't improve your driving skills. In my perception an official F1 game should only come with one level: the real one, with real laptimes and performance as seen in the real season.

    If drivers/gamers are too slow and finish their races with a lap down on the other AI drivers they at least have an incentive to improve their skills.

    Therefore I always hoped that racing rookies could start in GP2 first and try to find their way to the ultimate goal: a hot seat in F1
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Awesome Idea Bram, that would be great if CM could include GP2 in there :)
  4. Whilst for the most part I agree 100% with what you say, there's one big factor which puts a split down the audience of most racing games: Steering wheels.

    I myself LOVE racing simulators - but as a student I don't have the room for one in my tiny bedroom. I have to make do with a controller and get everything I can out of it. Even if I was the best at using a d-pad, I'd still be beaten with ease by some of the worst who are using a steering wheel.

    The fact that I'm restricted to a d-pad is the reason I only play against the AI - I'm just not competitive in any leagues because everyone uses a wheel - and it's the same when speaking of the AI in this game.
  5. I would add that (at least in F1 2012), AI times are inconsistent even during one GP. In legend with a Williams I was able to make poles, then struggling in the race.
    And not only that... After improving my skills a lot, I could find myself matching their race pace in first stint. Then they just go way too fast. I'm still as consistent but their pace goes sky rocket. A bit as if their cars where losing weight (fuel) and mine didn't. Or as if they where 100% of time in fuel mix 3. Weird.
  6. Strange that! I think it's because they try to match your pace, so if your setting fastest laps, the lap after that, the CPU randomly will go about 1 second quicker.... Stange, but true!

    I will also notice that if I set a quick time in Qualy, they tend to up their pace considerably... So if you just get the fastest lap, quickly return to garage (press pause and do it that way) and you will find they wont beat your time so quickly as your not on track for the engine to match your pace.... That's what I have found anyway :S
  7. I played 2012 over 100 hours but I can't confirm what you're saying.

    I thought everybody knows that simulated times are much slower then the real times set by the AI.
  8. Agreed, that would be amazing but it's not going to happen I'd say. The problem with this game series is that codies dont really have enough time to include a host of new features. I think it would be great if they partnered up with another games development company, like EA or something. They could then alternate each year, which gives each company two years to improve on the previous game. This is just like Call of Duty with infinity ward and treyarch. Both Black ops and Modern warfare are similar, but you do notice little differences here and there which makes each game unique. I'd love to see this with an F1 game.

    I'm not a fan of codemasters game's at all to be honest, so I wouldnt mind if they gave the license over to someone else. I mean, a games company who have made a game as bad as international cricket 2010, should never go near making another game again :)
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Haha I remember that game LOL!!!!!

  10. You need to Mention Ashes Cricket 09 too ;)
  11. The idea that racing rookies could start in GP2 is a very good idea, but I don't like the first one : that an official F1 game should only come with one level. I and probably a lot of other people play this game for fun, sometimes. After a long day at school, it's something relaxing to play one or two races, at Semi-Pro difficulty. But, would I enjoy playing the game if the AI were 7-8 or even 10 seconds faster that me, in every single lap? No, I wouldn't!
    One of my problems is that I use a keyboard, and not a gamepad or a steering wheel (I am collecting money to buy a gamepad). So, I can't keep up with some „real” AI, that drives the same as an real F1 driver. Yes, you probably think that I am a noob, and maybe I am, but this is my personal opinion, and it shouldn't be the same as yours.
    My opinion is that we should have more AI difficulties, and, maybe, one real AI difficulty, to make people like you happy.
  12. Bram

    Roaring Pipes Maniacs | #27 Staff Premium Member

    Fully agree, everyone their own opinion. I am pretty sure that CM really don't give a damn what my or your opinion is they will do whatever suits them best, which is fine :)

    My post would be my view on a perfect official F1 game. For me official goes a bit further than just the correct colors and logo's on the car.

    I am a bit biased due to my history with the iOpener Enabled technology in the past. I have seen and tested how brutally awesome a racing sim would be if the artificial intelligence is to be replaced with 100% real data. This means all the real F1 drivers have their exact 100% accurate GPS position, speed, heading and such.

    This technology is/was available and has been ignored by the larger game developers since its first announcement which is a total shame as it is/was groundbreaking and would make this silly scripted AI completely obsolete.

    Would give all the players the option to race against real drivers in real time (or later) while the race is happening, so you can literally race F1 drivers instead of watching them on the TV and be the extra man on the grid.

    But what I liked the most is the fact that you can build a library of real races that you can play afterwards. Who wouldn't like to be able to race against the real Michael Schumacher once more in a few years time but in a game?

    Imagine a game in 10 years that holds the data of 10 consecutive seasons that you are able to play. No need anymore to release a full "new" game every year for a full prize. Just release the base and ad a new car and track pack (laserscanned) and buy a new data set.
    • Like Like x 4

  13. And this is the one thing that's putting me off reinstalling F1 2011 or buying F1 2012. I know that on some tracks I'll be able to blitz the AI and on others I'll be nowhere. If there's one thing that needs sorting out for F1 2013, it's this!

    In all fairness, after they released Patch 2 on PC, AC09 was the single best cricket game I've ever played; I only got bored due to the lack of content in the game.
  14. Well I agree about AI of F1 but Cricket i won't atleast for me. The Main Drawback for that is How the Player Defend the Ball I've never seen any one do like that, also with the Game Play Mods Cricket 07 was much better than Ashes Cricket 09