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Acceptable Frame Rate

Discussion in 'Racer' started by EAP3D, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. < 20

  2. 20-30

  3. 30-40

  4. 40-50

  5. 50-60

  6. 60+

  1. (poll) What is the minimum acceptable framerate for playing racer , in your opinion (or other driving sims/arcades)?

    Similar to the "What is your GPU?" thread, these results will help me (and others?) determine how detailed of models to offer when creating scratch made cars or tracks.
  2. KS95

    RACER Moderator

    I hate to be an ass but I'd go for 25-35 as like your eyes see things smoothly at 24 lol.
  3. Stereo

    Premium Member

    For driving, about 30-40 is fine (more is always better). I usually tweak it down to 15-20 for screenshots and recording videos though.
  4. 30~40 is playable.
  5. @KS95...Ass-lol! I am such a fart for saying it!lmao!

    I chose the 30-40 because I get 24-26fps on my junky Dell, and 50-55 on my new E-machine. I didn't name it...E-machine sounds like a washing machine.....lol!
  6. Does it beep when your clothes are done too? lmao!

    and i chose 20-30 fps (remember this is minimum fps that it is playable to you, not what you run necessarily). Because like KS95 has already said your eyes see in about 25fps, or something like that. But to me any lower then about 20fps and things just get too choppy.
  7. At least my eyes can tell the difference up to about 60fps...but I prefer film framerates of ~25fps.
    The motion is just nice...
  8. Well, my eyes can see the difference between 60 and 100 fps, so the the theory about 25 fps sounds a bit strange. I would say 30-40 is OK.
  9. I voted 20-30fps too, and like KS95 said, its the same with video stuff or stop motion. They use 25fps too. And of course more is always better, but with 20-30 fps it looks good enough.
  10. 50fps+ imo

    You can sense jerky motion at 25-30fps, you only need to use the 'smooth motion' or whatever on most TV's these days and see the difference!

    For films I prefer less, but for an interactive game 50fps+ starts to look seamlessly smooth which is what you want really...

    You can still play happily enough with less, but it's perhaps not ideal imo.

  11. KS95

    RACER Moderator

    I seriously doubt you could tell the difference between 30fps and 50fps. I'm not saying that you couldn't, maybe you can.. I just really doubt it lol. I don't see the point in having more FPS than you need. Turn 10 lost the majority of tire smoke just so it could say that Forza 3 runs at a stable 60fps. I see no point!
  12. That is just it though, there will always be those unexpected times when there is lots of smoke or lots of cars or stupid motion blur and useless bloom, silly lighting etc. Having it run fast enough so that there is a buffer before being unusable is incredibly handy. Sure, it is not going to happen all of the time but if your FPS goes into the can in the middle of a race...
    Now, in the case of Racer, proper LOD handling or view distance reduction would likely be ok imo.

    Also need to take into consideration other people's hardware. If something runs really badly (20FPS) on my medium system then how is it going to be for people with slightly lesser computers? Sure on new hardware something might have a min rate of 30, but most racer users do not actually use the very high end of the newest hardware.

  13. The real thing is, on new gpu don't matter the poly count (not too much). I was running that civic fd converted from amgfan and the model was arround 400.000 faces and the frame count at 100 fps, with the default lambo was at 108 so, in my opinion this is not too much impact.
  14. Stereo

    Premium Member

    It just gets smoother, at 30 fps it's easy to see the track "jumping" between frames (especially stuff like lamps)

    It's also easier to control the car at higher fps because it responds more smoothly.

    The 24 fps thing is kinda an artifact of existing films, they use a horrendous amount of blur to look okay at that framerate. If you watch them next to a 60fps movie, you'd see that at 60fps it's almost like looking through a window - at 24fps it has that "movie" look which people are used to. Which is okay if you want it, I guess. But it's not more accurate or anything. It's just an association that's been built up - major motion pictures are done at 24 fps, reality TV & stuff is done at 60 fps, so you associate the higher fps with cheap tv.
  15. KS95

    RACER Moderator

    Hmm. When I get a new graphics card, I'll probably end up agreeing with you.

    Thanks for explaining that Stereo :)
  16. 25fps > 50fps is like night and day... high fps is technically nicer and better, but doesn't always look it.

    I HATE movies at 50fps though, because they don't look right any more. Not sure what it is, they look too clean and crisp imo, and look like they were shot on a cheap camcorder hehe :)

    However, at the other end of the scale, I prefer higher fps on interactive stuff :D

    A replay is maybe ok at 25fps (have more effects visible like DOF and stuff?), but for in-game playing, faster and cleaner is better imo :D

  17. Apparent fluidity is also dependant on how fast the camera moves - in a high sensitivity first person shooter, 30-40 fps is likely to look apparently choppier if you do things like spin 180 degrees in half a second. That's only 15-20 frames for a full 180 degree spin, which makes you see the difference in frames. In most racing/driving games, the camera doesn't move a whole lot in a matter of a second so more frames are allocated to a small distance of movement, appearing smoother.

    I selected 40-50 for racer, but for any FPS I can't stand having less than 60, and 90+ is desirable.
  18. That is a good point :)

    I think for driving more fps is desireable, but replays can probably happily be targetted to run at 25fps and run more effects etc.

    Having a default fs_filter is nice, and then defining specific ones per-camera for realtime/replay would be cool, then a track cam in a replay might run DOF and lower fps but look really nice and realistic :D

  19. KS95

    RACER Moderator

    Surely to make Racer more enjoyable for everyone, it would make sense to make a lower frame rate appear smoother?
  20. The only real way to do this is to use motion blur, like crysis does.