AC is still simulator?

[ouvert]

depends how you define simulator i guess
It is for sure not a racing simulator (by my own definition)

 

[bigbawmcgraw]

According to PRC, Assetto Corsa is simcade and has no simulation value.
So mathematically Assetto Corsa is 3/7 sim.

Luckily for us, no self respecting simracer takes that site seriously.

As Kevin hinted at above, if we're waiting for that 'perfect' racing sim with all of the features from all racing sims from the last x number of years, plus the ones that were missing, we'll have a very long wait.
As Aris pointed out, he's flattered that some people look on his sim as a AAA title, but to compare it to other titles with 100+ staff is neither realistic nor fair. Those of us who followed AC since the tech preview 3 years ago, know how far they have come. One car, one track and zero promises, but it felt amazing. Ironically their biggest mistake was to make it look and feel as good as it did. Even 3 years ago, had the physics been on par with what PCars is today, it probably wouldn't have made it to Steam's Greenlight phase.
But two years after launching on PC, it's about to be launched on console. Sure it will probably not contend with the likes of Forza and Gran Turismo in sales figures, but there is a corner of that market that desperately wants to know what it's like to drive a virtually real car on a virtually real (laser scanned) track, without the costs of literally doing it for real. But who knows, perhaps only negative 'press' will hold it back from competing with the big boys.
Whether we like it or not, from humble beginnings, AC has had a massive impact on the simracing genre. For now, we either make the best of what we have or move on to something more fulfilling, such as crocheting.

TL;DR The sooner certain people disappear from the internet, the quicker simracing can advance.

 

[ouvert]

As Aris pointed out, he's flattered that some people look on his sim as a AAA title, but to compare it to other titles with 100+ staff is neither realistic nor fair.

Doesn`t Kunos have one of bigger dev team from current top sims? Sector, Reiza, ... well except rF2 I guess (no idea how much guys work on it)

 

[Lily Starfox]

Did somebody actually just mentioned PRC?....
Bring out the tar and feathers!! (I wonder if anybody even still know what it means though lol)

 

[bigbawmcgraw]

Doesn`t Kunos have one of bigger dev team from current top sims? Sector, Reiza, ... well except rF2 I guess (no idea how much guys work on it)

And you mention these titles because they are perfect in every way? You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd disagree with you.

 

[ouvert]

And you mention these titles because they are perfect in every way? You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd disagree with you.

nope I mentioned it cause using this excuse of Kunos being small team is not really valid .. seeing what could even smaller teams do .. no sim is perfect in every way ..

 

[Glaurung]

I sincerely do not understand why in every topic is mentioned the People's Republic of China

 

[bigbawmcgraw]

nope I mentioned it cause using this excuse of Kunos being small team is not really valid .. seeing what could even smaller teams do .. no sim is perfect in every way ..

Then I missed your point, as I'm sure you missed mine.

 

[ouvert]

Then I missed your point, as I'm sure you missed mine.

People are always excusing lack of features and how AC stands against games with big dev teams with stating how small Kunos is.. But yet we see that 3x smaller teams don't need those excuses.. And I don't mean it against AC, mean it against those excuses

 

[Federico Strazzullo]

We can discuss about which one is important if you want ...
Just from top of my head listing few features related to race itself (missing features not related to race are not there). At least half of this is important:

RACE/CHAMPIONSHIP SETUP:
- ammount and duration of sessions (practice, qually, race) ... double qually, two race format, reverse grid, pole possition ..
- adjustable weight and scoring penalties for championships
- mandatory pitting

CAR SETUP:
- presets for individual pit stops (tyre change and little fuel on 1st, front tyres change, no fuel on 2nd, etc.. )

RACE START:
- well proper race start .. 1st gear in before green light
- standing, rolling, fast rolling starts (that could be in race setup)
- jump start penalty

RACE:
- full flag system
- penalty system ... drive through, stop and go, ...
- outlap

PIT:
- manual pit limiter
- pit speeding
- don`t wanna judge before next update .. SP pits might bring new things

OTHERS:
- some mechanics related to racing ..
--- engine temperature (oil,water .. you can`t just stay behind somebody in dirty air and not expecting overheating)
--- brake temps/wear ... big part of racing

Sure somebody would find more ...

I'm well avare that lot of players are fine with AC being jump and go racing game with mostly short sprint races, I like to jump and race for ten laps too..but once you would like to do more you start to feel how insufficient it is ATM..
Also for SP, career is.. well it is there.. dont realy mind it being how it is.. All i need ia fully customizable championship...with that, game would hold for years..

Stefano told me that majority of this features won't be implemented and I'm fine with it..so we are just talking here for purpose of talking

Are you sure you know and have tried AC at its best before posting this thread, and got enough informations about this game?

Let me comment your desired features :

RACE/CHAMPIONSHIP SETUP:
- Amount and duration of sessions : the duration feature is fully customizable by the server admin in-game. The amount of sessions is freely set by the admin, that is to say he can restart the server as many times as he wants to, if there is an incident for instance. For double qualifying and two race format, scoring penalties for championships and mandatory pitting, as well as slowing down when you hit someone else's car, it's not up to AC to develop it, it's by the simracing teams / events organizers who set their rules for having good races.

Don't forget that AC is pretty much a community-based simulator, or you can play on your own, offline just to taste the sim. You're free to drive and participate the way you want to.

CAR SETUP:
- Presets for individual pit stops : be more informed on AC. This sim allows third-party applications (or you can call them plug-ins), written in Python for in-game integration of the app and, sometimes, in exe file so external to the game. Kunos is not the biggest simworld development studio, so they develop core features that nobody else can access. Other developping teams and every independent programmer can make its own app for AC, because the game's structure is open to everyone ! You can mod the game the way you want to ! Thanks to this, the development of core features is helped too and it helps the community grow. Isn't that great?

You can find some pitstop apps very easily by searching. In RaceDepartment, there are already lots of threads with links for downloading pitstop apps, such as PitConfig 1.4.

RACE START:
- A proper race start is totally up to your skills 1st gear in before green light is not a very good simulation of reality. But you can do it, of course, if you have 3 pedals with one for the clutch... You can simply not accelerate at all and leave the clutch fully pressed before race start. Just like in a real car when you drive in the city. But usually, racers don't start with first gear. They start from neutral to maximize their acceleration ability at race start, even if it can cause high tires friction, but that's simracing.
- For standing, rolling and fast rolling starts, please tell me why Kunos Simulazioni should bother developing such a little feature that can be easily organized by RaceDepartment, or any other simracing community? All these starting modes work well by default in AC, don't worry.
- Jump start penalty : once again, it's up to the simracers team and events organizers.

RACE:
- Full flag system : in-game, by default, there is the blue flag, the yellow and the white one. I've not looked for flags system apps yet, but surely there's already something.
- Penalty system, drive through, stop and go : up to the simracing teams and events organizers.
- Outlap : why bother? "Yes ! We did it ! Thank you all the team for this great job." (celebrating and greeting hand to the public)

PIT:
Already discussed before. Look for PitConfig or equivalent.

OTHERS:
- Some mechanics related to racing : I can tell you I've had several mechanical issues while driving cars with H-shifting gearbox, for example ! For the rest, I won't be tired of repeating it, look for third-party apps. There's a good one for tires temperatures evolving in time and depending on your driving. The more you drive fast and easy (without torturing the tires with lots of friction I mean), the more laps you can do even with cool tires (blue colour).

When you're racing for more than 10 laps or 20, let's say, your physical endurance will do the game And also the quality of the accessories for a simulator.

SP Career mode is fine... I mean, if you want a real life career, just go MP

Lastly, I'm concluding with your wink for Project CARS. I've played it, quite much less than Assetto Corsa but I've played it, and I can tell you there's something wrong with the cars physics. Let me explain : when you lose control of a car and it doesn't face the track's direction anymore, the car doesn't seem to completely lose control of itself... I don't know how to explain myself in detail but there's some sort of assist that forces you to keep you towards the track's direction, regardless of the skid speed. I have experienced this strange feeling, and I didn't like it, so I got back to AC, set up the cars handling to Pro, that is to say Factory traction control, which means, I think (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) the car's own traction control depending on the real life car Kunos took the data from and translated it into the simulator, so as to be as close as possible to reality

 

[bigbawmcgraw]

People are always excusing lack of features and how AC stands against games with big dev teams.. But yet we see that 3x smaller teams don't need those excuses.. And I don't mean it against AC, mean it against those excuses

Just to clarify, the 'AAA title' remark was reference to a conversation where AC was compared to PCars, which had a much bigger dev team (and marketing budget) compared to Kunos.
You could argue until the end of time which is better, but it would be nothing more than conjecture.

 

[ouvert]

Are you sure you know and have tried AC at its best before posting this thread, and got enough informations about this game?

Let me comment your desired features :

RACE/CHAMPIONSHIP SETUP:
- Amount and duration of sessions : the duration feature is fully customizable by the server admin in-game. The amount of sessions is freely set by the admin, that is to say he can restart the server as many times as he wants to, if there is an incident for instance. For double qualifying and two race format, scoring penalties for championships and mandatory pitting, as well as slowing down when you hit someone else's car, it's not up to AC to develop it, it's by the simracing teams / events organizers who set their rules for having good races.

Don't forget that AC is pretty much a community-based simulator, or you can play on your own, offline just to taste the sim. You're free to drive and participate the way you want to.

CAR SETUP:
- Presets for individual pit stops : be more informed on AC. This sim allows third-party applications (or you can call them plug-ins), written in Python for in-game integration of the app and, sometimes, in exe file so external to the game. Kunos is not the biggest simworld development studio, so they develop core features that nobody else can access. Other developping teams and every independent programmer can make its own app for AC, because the game's structure is open to everyone ! You can mod the game the way you want to ! Thanks to this, the development of core features is helped too and it helps the community grow. Isn't that great?

You can find some pitstop apps very easily by searching. In RaceDepartment, there are already lots of threads with links for downloading pitstop apps, such as PitConfig 1.4.

RACE START:
- A proper race start is totally up to your skills 1st gear in before green light is not a very good simulation of reality. But you can do it, of course, if you have 3 pedals with one for the clutch... You can simply not accelerate at all and leave the clutch fully pressed before race start. Just like in a real car when you drive in the city. But usually, racers don't start with first gear. They start from neutral to maximize their acceleration ability at race start, even if it can cause high tires friction, but that's simracing.
- For standing, rolling and fast rolling starts, please tell me why Kunos Simulazioni should bother developing such a little feature that can be easily organized by RaceDepartment, or any other simracing community? All these starting modes work well by default in AC, don't worry.
- Jump start penalty : once again, it's up to the simracers team and events organizers.

RACE:
- Full flag system : in-game, by default, there is the blue flag, the yellow and the white one. The other flags are included in third-party apps I think, but I didn't give it a try yet.
- Penalty system, drive through, stop and go : up to the simracing teams and events organizers.
- Outlap : why bother? "Yes ! We did it ! Thank you all the team for this great job." (celebrating and greeting hand to the public)

PIT:
Already discussed before. Look for PitConfig or equivalent.

OTHERS:
- Some mechanics related to racing : I can tell you I've had several mechanical issues while driving cars with H-shifting gearbox, for example ! For the rest, I won't be tired of repeating it, look for third-party apps. There's a good one for tires temperatures evolving in time and depending on your driving. The more you drive fast and easy (without torturing the tires with lots of friction I mean), the more laps you can do even with cool tires (blue colour).

When you're racing for more than 10 laps or 20, let's say, your physical endurance will do the game And also the quality accessories for a simulator.

SP Career mode is fine... I mean, if you want a real life career, just go MP

Lastly, I'm concluding with your wink for Project CARS. I've played it, quite much less than Assetto Corsa but I've played it, and I can tell you there's something wrong with the cars physics. Let me explain : when you lose control of a car and it doesn't face the track's direction anymore, the car doesn't seem to completely lose control of itself... I don't know how to explain myself in detail but there's some sort of assist that forces you to keep you towards the track's direction, regardless of the skid speed. I have experienced this strange feeling, and I didn't like it, so I got back to AC, set up the cars handling to Pro, that is to say Factory traction control, which means, I think (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) the car's own traction control depending on the real life car Kunos took the data from and translated it into the simulator, so as to be as close as possible to reality

hmm I just listed missing features .. nothing more you basically said AC has non of those features but it either doensn`t matter or comunity can to some limited extend do it .. but not really doing it (restarting qually seasons to have to qually seasons is not the same as have two qually seasons unless server is remembering results of first qually session and it is not working for SP, etc) ..

@bigbawmcgraw OK, I rather not argue about AC vs pC .. I`m too much not interested in pC to be objective though I do appriciate features it offers

 

[Federico Strazzullo]

Maybe AC hasn't all the features you wish there would be, and if it was the case? would you play more AC or would you continue arguing over and over?

Don't underestimate modders, they improve a lot the game and your term "limited extend" is a nice way of thanking them, really...

And next time, can you correctly spell your words or there's some sort of hand shaking problem?

 

[ouvert]

Maybe AC hasn't all the features you wish there would be, and if it was the case? would you play more AC or would you continue arguing over and over?

Don't underestimate modders, they improve a lot the game and your term "limited extend" is a nice way of thanking them, really...

And next time, can you correctly spell your words or there's some sort of hand shaking problem?

well modders are limited by tools and options Kunos gave them .. nothing offending about that statement ..
It is not about arguing vs playing .. I said several times I enojoy driving in AC and I will support it in future .. It is forum for god sake, we talk about hobby we share .. I was asked to list missing features, I listed missing features with addition that we can discuss which of those features are essential for racing simulation .. that is all ... it seems that you, being probably more ethusiastic about AC,are taking it perosnaly .. I can`t help you with that ..

 

[Federico Strazzullo]

@ouvert About limited tools Kunos are giving us, I believe, but it's only my subjective opinion, that they don't do it, or more really hadn't the time, to implement this. Or simply they don't want to, that's their choice. We already have the tools, it's up to people who already have the necessary knowledge of developing with their own tools, not with AC tools. I'm not arguing because I'm understanding that you are discovering AC. Python is a programming language for computers. With Python, itself, tools, modders implement their program into AC's tree, or whatever sim in the world (rFactor2 for example). Sorry for the term "tree", I'm using Google Translate lol, I mean folder structure. They implement it in their disk, inside their game, and upload it. That's it.

For another modding way, skinning, you can use whatever graphic design tool (Photoshop, GIMP and j'en passe) and do the same thing.

As I'm not a modder but I could be if I want to, I don't know if you have to ask permissions before uploading your mod or if it is totally free.

it seems that you, being probably more ethusiastic about AC,are taking it perosnaly .. I can`t help you with that ..

I'm not taking it that personally... I mean, somehow yes, because it's my favourite simulator and I get nervous when people criticize something they don't know enough, especially when it's about something I love. So I guess it's normal. Put it this way : when I'm dealing with something (or someone) I care a lot, I could do (nearly) everything. It just means passion and love. Normal.

 

[xnorb]

People who think things like real starts, rolling starts, pit speeding, stop/go penalties, outlaps and alike are not at all important have obviously never seen those beauties in action.

Those features add so much immersion, once you experienced it you don't ever want to go back. Everytime a game takes control from me when entering the pits, the screen fades black when i cross the finish line or i can't do the warmup lap on my own i think "WHY? OH WHY?".

I enjoy GSCE and iRacing for those features way more than any other active sim out there.

The problem of this thread is that everybody has a different definition of what a game is, what a sim is, what a mix of that is and that people are instantly jumping on the hate train if somebody says that his game/sim is too hardcore or not hardcore enough.
Seriously, sometimes RD is like a religion forum where people threaten each other just because they don't believe in the same thing...

ouvert thinks AC isn't a proper racing sim because it's lacking lots of features.
Okay, so be it. His right to have that opinion.
Absolutely no reason to make an elephant out of that.
Just enjoy your time in the game and be happy.

 

[Federico Strazzullo]

People who think things like real starts, rolling starts, pit speeding, stop/go penalties, outlaps and alike are not at all important have obviously never seen those beauties in action.

Don't make too much a generality. There is this case, then the other, then the other, etc. Everyone is different and equal at the same time, right? There are simracers who are or were or will be, I dunno, also real life racers.

Those features add so much immersion, once you experienced it you don't ever want to go back. Everytime a game takes control from me when entering the pits, the screen fades black when i cross the finish line or i can't do the warmup lap on my own i think "WHY? OH WHY?".

Haha... right. When I finish in a good place, I'm always damn happy, I run all over the appartment raising my fist in the air like a real 3rd place on a podium at a GP It makes me so happy, really. Then other things make me go down, unavoidably, without my personal intervention, from somebody else or whatever Goddamn company, association, institution, etc, everyone, playing dirty tricks with me.

When I couldn't finish my last 2H race and I stopped after an hour, some laps before I was like exactly what you describe: "Why, oh why?!?!". That's for different reasons and I think the main reason is : I'm simply not used to this situwation of racing for like 2 hours and a half in a row, with some short breaks of course. It's like real racing !! Or when you practice whatever real sport and you're not prepared enough, you're not used to !! I don't think it's because I was discouraged of AC, but maybe at that time, yes, it was like a real job. Just a matter of habit. Even for things or persons you are so much dedicated for, you live ups and downs. Each step reached leads to another step, and so on, and so on. That's life in all its aspects, either real or virtual. When we (everyone of us in this world) undergoes a fall into a deep ravine, we cannot, from the bottom of that ravine, jump straight by once onto the higher ground. Instead, we slowly climb and climb until reaching the higher ground. I'm not gonna stay at the bottom of that ravine, for God sake ! I'm not either gonna change for another field forever. The more I know a field, the more I know where the next ravine is and the less risk I'm going to fall again

So I'm happy that you are happy for us being happy playing what we like and doing what we like, and enjoy being free. Thanks

 

[TheSznikers]

I am the founder of this topic, but the first post has been removed by the moderates.
Generally I meant as possible, the person on the pad achieves better results than the others playing on the steering wheel.
The first person from the list uses the x360 pad, the rest drivin on the steering wheel. and therefore I asked whether the AC is still simulator ??

 

[Federico Strazzullo]

Maybe, statistically. But it won't ever change my mind. Simracing with a steering wheel is the real thing for feeling.

 

[ouvert]

@ouvert About limited tools Kunos are giving us, I believe, but it's only my subjective opinion, that they don't do it, or more really hadn't the time, to implement this. Or simply they don't want to, that's their choice. We already have the tools, it's up to people who already have the necessary knowledge of developing with their own tools, not with AC tools. I'm not arguing because I'm understanding that you are discovering AC. Python is a programming language for computers. With Python, itself, tools, modders implement their program into AC's tree, or whatever sim in the world (rFactor2 for example). Sorry for the term "tree", I'm using Google Translate lol, I mean folder structure. They implement it in their disk, inside their game, and upload it. That's it.

For another modding way, skinning, you can use whatever graphic design tool (Photoshop, GIMP and j'en passe) and do the same thing.

As I'm not a modder but I could be if I want to, I don't know if you have to ask permissions before uploading your mod or if it is totally free.



I'm not taking it that personally... I mean, somehow yes, because it's my favourite simulator and I get nervous when people criticize something they don't know enough, especially when it's about something I love. So I guess it's normal. Put it this way : when I'm dealing with something (or someone) I care a lot, I could do (nearly) everything. It just means passion and love. Normal.

Im hooked in AC since begining of early access (with brakes due ffb issues) .. Surely not just discovering it and im aware of python and based on my university education in software development I'd like to think I'm not completely oblivious to this matter (even though i decided not to work in IT industry)... I do skinning for personal use if im not tired of PS after 12-18 hours of working in it
Also it is not me calling it not sim or bad game...i just listed missing some features that prevents me to consider this game to be properly simulating racing... Ac is still in my top 4 racing games

 

[poet]

Anyone that feels the need to ask this question about any racing title (sim or not) immediately excludes themselves from having any valid opinion on what a sim is.

If you can't get behind the wheel and tell whether what you're experiencing is realistic or not, then you're not a sim racer and have no valid opinion.