AC is still simulator?

[ouvert]

depends how you define simulator i guess
It is for sure not a racing simulator (by my own definition)

 

[Radu Oros]

The gamepad settings in AC can give you good-competitive control of the car. If you practice enough and know the racing line, where to put the car, where to brake, etc. you can for sure make a highly competitive lap time.
Some people have more difficulties driving with a wheel, maybe because they can't get used to the equipment or not skilled enough to drive the car fast and well. But is mostly all about how much knowledge and skill you have with the car on a race track.

If racers can't post a competitive lap time in sim racing games, I think is the fault of the game for not giving good enough gamepad settings. In AC, the same car physics are used when driving with a wheel and with a gamepad, what makes the difference is that the gamepad control settings lets you maneuver the car enough to be competitive. It has nothing to do how realistic the sim is.

------

The difficult part of racing with gamepads comes in a race with other drivers on the track. Is "easier" to make a great lap time in Hotlap than to make great lap times in a Race with other cars around (because a wheel possibly still gives better control of the car than a gamepad, in tight situations). But in a way, is the same with drivers using a steering wheel. So in the end, it still comes down to experience, knowledge, and skill.

 

[AndrewBo]

 

[Radu Oros]

It is for sure not a racing simulator (by my own definition)

In your definition is not a racing simulator, but that must not be right. Because you can race in AC, both in public and private racing. You don't necessarily need all the features in the world to simulate motorsport racing.
If AC is not a racing simulator, then how come more racing happens in AC than all the other "complete" racing sims? (except iracing I guess)

 

[ouvert]

In your definition is not a racing simulator, but that must not be right. Because you can race in AC, both in public and private racing. You don't necessarily need all the features in the world to simulate motorsport racing.
If AC is not a racing simulator, then how come more racing happens in AC than all the other "complete" racing sims? (except iracing I guess)

well obviously sombodys definiton of racing simulation is simplified almost to having two cars on the same track at the same time .. .. I guess NFS most wanted being free right now is good value racing simulation .. fact that you can race does not necessary make it racing simulation ... it probably makes it racing game I guess

Seriously .. for somebody it is enough (and I`m not saying they are wrong) for me it is not .. I can enjoy AC, I just don`t consider it to be platform for simulating racing for me, and that doesn`t mean I`m not doing races in it .. confusing

And how do you know how much online+offline racing is happening in other sims

 

[Radu Oros]

And how do you know how much online+offline racing is happening in other sims

Neither I know how much offline racing is happening in AC. Is easier to talk about MP races because is something out in the open, when for offline we don't have access. The only measure for offline is daily steam players for a game, then separate from how many people in servers, but is another dead end, because many things can happen when someone has AC open, like creating and testing mods, driving alone, and others possibly also race.
But the numbers of all this are still bigger than for the other sims on steam. Bigger not always better, but if more people prefer game 'a', and game 'b' has lower or much lower numbers of activity, bigger can also mean better, although subjectively, since is still what people prefer, so in a way is better for each person in specific.

What matters for a sim racing game is the essence of auto racing, which is racing cars on a race track. Certain games have more extras than others, in terms of organization or race setup (meaning, the ways in which a race can happen and what can happen during the race).
What else matters for a sim racing game is the real world level of simulation of how cars behave and how that is transmitted to the driver through the controller.

What it doesn't matter for a sim racing game (or maybe better said, racing simulator instead of sim game) is all regulations and organizations of a specific series in real life auto racing/motorsport being replicated.

What is auto racing in real life if not racing motor vehicles? Wins who crosses the finish line first, whether is a timed race or with laps. Creating that in a computer software you get a racing simulator, which also involves the real world simulation of those vehicles. Although is not necessary to replicate any car in specific from real life, but I think at least needs to respect real world physics of motor vehicles.

If you think a sim racing game also needs many many features replicated from real life racing organization and regulations, and you can say AC doesn't have that to be a racing game, then fine (emphasize on game, not racing). But down to semantics, AC is a (motor vehicle, which is a road vehicle, not water/space/air -craft) racing simulator because it simulates, with real world physics, motor cars that can race between them on a road.

 

[ouvert]

ok how much nonsteam GSC, rF2, rF, GTR Evo players are online at this mmnt ?
I`m not trying to imply that AC has small player base (at least not during peak, during day in europe it sux just like any other sim) just it has nothing to do with it being racing simulation.

and ok sim racing game and racing simulator are two different things ...

In general if it is essential for all (or most) real racing series and it is something implementable (and already implemented in many sims) it should be part of a racing simulator, I don`t want anything crazy or not reasonable... from my POV of course

Sure if game is not following real series (like R3E, GTR2,GTR Evo, F1) you don`t expect all rules and homologization .. but there are common features that just should be applied ..

 

[Radu Oros]

AC has many common features and playing design of all the other (sim) racing games. But then each one has their own individuality. What you're not satisfied with is that it doesn't have the common features you want specifically from other current or past sims. Some games have more stuff to do, or more customization than others.

Other people may not miss or want those specific common features. Why should their opinion be less valuable than your understanding of what is essential or should be common in a sim racing game?
If a sim racing game, that apparently doesn't have all the needed essential and common features, is still active, popular, and in development, probably that list of features is not crucial.
The purpose of that list of features is to attract and maintain a different (specific) group of sim racers. But that specific group of sim racers already have specific sim racing games that meet their standards. Which doesn't mean that specific group can't enjoy and race in AC. But goes a long way to say AC is not a sim racing game or not a racing simulator because it doesn't have that specific list of features a specific group thinks should be a priority in all the sim racing games ever made.

 

[ouvert]

Sure, I'm talking for my self..but still lots of key features missing

 

[ouvert]

We can discuss about which one is important if you want ...
Just from top of my head listing few features related to race itself (missing features not related to race are not there). At least half of this is important:

RACE/CHAMPIONSHIP SETUP:
- ammount and duration of sessions (practice, qually, race) ... double qually, two race format, reverse grid, pole possition ..
- adjustable weight and scoring penalties for championships
- mandatory pitting

CAR SETUP:
- presets for individual pit stops (tyre change and little fuel on 1st, front tyres change, no fuel on 2nd, etc.. )

RACE START:
- well proper race start .. 1st gear in before green light
- standing, rolling, fast rolling starts (that could be in race setup)
- jump start penalty

RACE:
- full flag system
- penalty system ... drive through, stop and go, ...
- outlap

PIT:
- manual pit limiter
- pit speeding
- don`t wanna judge before next update .. SP pits might bring new things

OTHERS:
- some mechanics related to racing ..
--- engine temperature (oil,water .. you can`t just stay behind somebody in dirty air and not expecting overheating)
--- brake temps/wear ... big part of racing

Sure somebody would find more ...

I'm well avare that lot of players are fine with AC being jump and go racing game with mostly short sprint races, I like to jump and race for ten laps too..but once you would like to do more you start to feel how insufficient it is ATM..
Also for SP, career is.. well it is there.. dont realy mind it being how it is.. All i need ia fully customizable championship...with that, game would hold for years..

Stefano told me that majority of this features won't be implemented and I'm fine with it..so we are just talking here for purpose of talking

 

[Hash_V8]

I agree, when I treat AC as a racing sim, I get frustrated with it, when I treat it like a good driving game\top gear\chris harris\hotlap sim I enjoy it alot more(minus the AI), albeit in smaller doses then other race sims I play, Im tired of waiting and talking about "race features" in AC and have accepted it as what it is,mainly because of the very vocal "core" fans that seem to be happy without basic racing features and good AI or simply repeat same old "thats what YOU want" and challenge anyone that dares ask for improvements in that area.

Ive only invested about 50 dollars all up and got my worth, Id be putting a lot more pressure on Kunos if they was no race sim alternative, but luckily there's plenty.

 

[Radu Oros]

We can discuss about which one is important if you want ...
Just from top of my head listing few features related to race itself (missing features not related to race are not there). At least half of this is important:

RACE/CHAMPIONSHIP SETUP:
- ammount and duration of sessions (practice, qually, race) ... double qually, two race format, reverse grid, pole possition ..
- adjustable weight and scoring penalties for championships
- mandatory pitting

CAR SETUP:
- presets for individual pit stops (tyre change and little fuel on 1st, front tyres change, no fuel on 2nd, etc.. )

RACE START:
- well proper race start .. 1st gear in before green light
- standing, rolling, fast rolling starts (that could be in race setup)
- jump start penalty

RACE:
- full flag system
- penalty system ... drive through, stop and go, ...
- outlap

PIT:
- manual pit limiter
- pit speeding
- don`t wanna judge before next update .. SP pits might bring new things

OTHERS:
- some mechanics related to racing ..
--- engine temperature (oil,water .. you can`t just stay behind somebody in dirty air and not expecting overheating)
--- brake temps/wear ... big part of racing

Sure somebody would find more ...

I agree, and would like your list made in the game. It can of course advance the diversity of the racing in AC and bring it closer to what fans of motorsport are used to see in real life races, and also experienced in other racing games.

 

[ouvert]

..
Other people may not miss or want those specific common features. Why should their opinion be less valuable than your understanding of what is essential or should be common in a sim racing game.
...
But goes a long way to say AC is not a sim racing game or not a racing simulator because it doesn't have that specific list of features

Well I tried, from my first post and in every other, to made it clear that this is my opinion, I'm approaching to it based on my personal 'definition' and expectations from racing simulation.
I'm fully respecting opposite view on it...
There is no right answer, however i believe that some of my points are making sense in general.

 

[Stereo]

It's as much simulator as it's ever been; 99% of the features in the game are simulator features, the other 1% is stability control and letting users drive from hood/chase cams and turning off abs/tc in cars where that can't be done.

 

[Terra21]

Simulator/stimulator what ever you want to call it. It must be doing something right as it's the only racer i fire up atm and really enjoy. It has its flaws but what game doesn't. To me the pros out weigh the cons by a considerable margin in AC

 

[DewCrew88]

--- brake temps/wear ... big part of racing

100% true, unfortunately the devs told the beta testers that would be coming becuase the street cars everyone would cry when they cooked their brakes, and it apparently doesnt matter in real life racing.

Funny because every team at the Rolex 24 changed pads 4+ times I would imagine. Guess they were doing it for fun, nothing to do with pad or rotor wear.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I thought being considered a "sim" had more to do with the physics and FFB, not how many racing "features" were available. By some standards laid out in this thread, Need for Speed could be considered a sim if it had flags, telemetry, brake wear, good AI, but still had rubbish physics and FFB. NetKar Pro is considered by some to be a great "sim", yet it didn't even have AI. Is it suddenly not a sim by the new standards? I guess the goalposts will always be moving for what's considered a "sim".

 

[ouvert]

I thought being considered a "sim" had more to do with the physics and FFB, not how many racing "features" were available. By some standards laid out in this thread, Need for Speed could be considered a sim if it had flags, telemetry, brake wear, good AI, but still had rubbish physics and FFB. NetKar Pro is considered by some to be a great "sim", yet it didn't even have AI. Is it suddenly not a sim by the new standards? I guess the goalposts will always be moving for what's considered a "sim".

sure .. race car simulator, driving simulator ... racing simulator hence the word 'racing' should simulate racing and car simulation as car being part of racing is included
Nah .. there is no definition .. it just potato - potatoe

 

[Benutzername]

Just would like a game which has physics and ffb of a simulator + all the features like flags, telemetry, brake wear, AI; good multiplayer, formation lap, otlap, night/day transition, 24h option, pit stops, light,...
Some old titles are closer to that than newer titles, while newer titles have a physical and graphical advantage.

 

[ouvert]

@Benutzername yeah .. imagine pCars being good