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Discuss the 2017 Formula One Australian Grand Prix here.

"A race a day(?)" / March and beyond - your opinion counts!

Discussion in 'RACE 07 Racing Club & Leagues' started by Björn, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. Björn

    Ävver et Hätz bliev he in Kölle

    Hello fellow racers,

    as you'll have noticed, RD's clubs and leagues will be premium-only come March 1st, a change that has been discussed for quite a long time and that staff was very cautious about - however, it seems like most of our users do indeed understand the issues that have led to this decision, so thanks for that :)

    Now, with that policy in place, in order to offer our users their money's worth, all of RD's racing clubs will commence to offer a race every day of the week, should they not already do so.
    As some of you will remember, the Race 07 club had reduced its races almost a year ago, going from Mo-Fr to the current schedule. The main reason for this move were very low signup counts for some of the races - sometimes, we ended up with 4 or less drivers.
    Now even going for two more races than back then, we'd like to do our best to prevent this from happening, although it's clearly very possible that at least some of the races will have low turnouts considering we simply do not have the user base with a game that old ;)

    In order to do so, we'd likely stick with the current schedule regarding Mondays, Tuesdays, and Fridays so those who wish to not change their participation scheme & rates don't have to worry about anything :)
    Apart from that, we've come up with a few ideas we think might be a way of not simply adding more races/cars (which is, of course, still entirely possible), but instead might offer some diversity - however, we'd like to hear your opinions, ideas and input on this first.
    Ideas for those events include, but are not limited to:

    • re-introduce the second touring car day (for those who've only joined us recently - we used to race touring cars on both Tuesdays and Thursdays)
    • another "fixed" car day for a very popular car - e.g. the IFM, thus introducing the "Master Monday" ;)
    • Mini-Series: racing a specific car/class on one day for 4(?) weeks, recording the points (maybe even using one dropped score?) made, thus creating a casual-non-league sort of thing. This might use the week's track or use its own selection, depending on the theme of the current series, e.g. "long tracks", "endurance", "sprint racing", "short tracks", "scandinavian tracks" and so on...
    • Democracy! We'd like to offer you guys to request track/car combos and race these user-created events on certain days of the week - always dreamt of running Formula RaceRoom at Macau? There you go!
    As a result, a sample week (in this case incorporating all of the ideas) might look like this:
    • Monday: IFM @ Brands Hatch (new fixed car)
    • Tuesday: WTCC @ Brands Hatch (unchanged)
    • Wednesday: Caterham Short Track Series #3 of 4 - Nurburgring Mullenbach (mini-series)
    • Thursday: STCC @ Brands Hatch (2nd TC day's back - might as well be Sunday's?)
    • Friday: Minis @ Brands Hatch (unchanged)
    • Saturday: Aussie V8's @ Nordschleife (member requests)
    • Sunday: Radicals @ Brands Hatch (unchanged but moved "random" car of the week - might as well be Thursday's?)
    For even more diversity, race lengths could vary, as well - introducing an endurance day, or going way back to one 45 minute race on the 2nd TC day, for example.

    As mentioned, we'd appreciate your input and voice on this in order to make this work as good as possible - so, what are you guys thinking? Any other ideas or wishes? :)
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Dennis Phelan

    Dennis Phelan
    more about staying on track. Premium

    Let's hear it guys! How do you like your club racing?
    • Like Like x 1
  3. H34d5h07

    No money, no team racing.

    Incoming rant regardless premium and future issues:

    When the Premium thingy surfaced a few weeks back, to me that was the biggest turn off ever. Now, before you think I am a cheap a-hole, hear me out. If I like/enjoy a service that I use on a daily/weekly basis, I gladly toss my money at that direction. So that's why I have gone premium, to show my support. The rest of the Premium package is nothing that interest me (well, the pit babe thread perhaps, but [insert your favorite search engine here], is your friend ;)) I know it ain't cheap to host servers, and all that. But, It was my way to help out. And I have also applied to be a commentator for a few games as well, since it's seems these kinds of resources are running low atm.

    But, when it was decided that even casual club racing are going premium, I just lost interest. Casual is not longer casual. Right now, sure, I can race whenever I want, since my premium extends for a full year. But then what? Why should I be needed to go premium, to maybe race once or twice, on a server, that is mostly using stock content that we all have used for years already. I virtually vomit every week when I see the casual club race scheme. It's the same combos, getting used, in the same cycle. Week in and week out.

    My races might also get ruined for different reasons like, game might crash. Drivers might crash me out. One day, I might like a certain combo, just to despise the rest for the whole month. Things may pop up in rel life, preventing me from race at all. That means, I have wasted money on something I won't able to use.

    In a way, It doesn't matter if you go premium. Even if it's cheap, on criminal insane level.
    You still have the issue of "Buy a pig in a poke " scenario.

    (This is just my personal opinion, about the possible new racing schedule)

    When I look at the list above, I feel nothing. It's still same content, just in a another package. The Aussie V8's looks interesting, but I would never pay once or twice just to enjoy them for a day or two. And IFM? Popular? In what dimension is that? Every time they have been scheduled to be used, the sign-ups has been fairly low. STCC/WTCC is far more popular in a far more superior way. It would had made more sense to use them more, maybe even in a few unofficial series.

    Carterhams, Radicals and Minis are fun to drive maybe once or twice per month. If even that.
    I bleed for GT (pro) cars, and would like to see them getting used a lot more.

    Also, R07 is old. But that doesn't mean it's dead. GTR2 is also old, but there is constantly new mods coming out to it. I play GTR2 on a daily basis. And recently I found two mods, that were made in 2014, with GT1, GT2 and GT3 cars. That was used during, yeah, you figured it out, In real life motorsport 2013-2014. (if they are legal, and all that, well, thats another discussion for another day. but could be worth to keep the door open for new stuff)

    So when numbers are getting low, you need to realize that you need to step it up a notch.
    Now, don't get me wrong, going back and going old-school, it's nothing wrong with that.
    Under the right circumstances it can be loads of fun. But why not try to reflect what is used in todays IRL motorsport? There tons of mods out there, that is 100% legal, but never get used.

    Also, you could as a start, (to see how things evolve) make a poll every week, asking us the community, what cars and tracks we want to use for that particular week. And I am not talking about stock content only. Modded cars is included. Doing it this way, makes the community feel a lot more involved. Maybe this has been done already in the past, and perhaps it wasn't a success back then, but that doesn't mean the idea behind it didn't work. It might had been just that particular time, that it didn't work. There might be other ways to make the community get more involved.

    Just look at Skyrim for example. I can't remember exactly when it was released, but around 2010-2011, and the community is bigger than ever. Why? Modding. People are still creating mods for the game. New weapons, armors, quests, landscapes, companions, etc etc. Heck, even games such as Oblivion and Fallout 3 is still strong. All thanks to modding.

    As I understand, R07 compete with games such as AC, GSC etc etc, and even that get modded.
    So why doesn't R07 use more of this stuff? Modding is the future, and R07, if it want to stay relevant, needs to do the same.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  4. EireGreen™


    Hey SimRacers,
    ich finde es gut dass es den RACE07 Club bei RD gibt.Mit euch gibts schöne und faire Rennen.Würde mich freuen ,wenn ihr die R07 Events schon ab 19:00 GMT startet,dann hat man es morgens früh um 5:00 nicht so schwer.Nun fahre ich auch gerne Assetto Corsa,deshalb ist für mich bei RD immer etwas dabei.Ich fahre seit einigen Jahren R07 und habe auch an Meisterschaften teilgenommen,das treibt die Leute zusätzlich noch an.Es gibt viele Addon Strecken die ihr dazu nehmen könntet.Mir würde mehr Abwechslung in den Serien und Strecken bei euren Events gefallen.Vor allem mehr Addon Strecken.Hier einige Ideen zur Inspiration.
    • WTCC Extreme
    • Formula RaceRoom
    • GT Pro,GT Sport,GT Club
    • WTCC´10
    • Mini One
    • Camaro Cup 2010 (Camaro Gen5)

    • Norisring
    • AVUS
    • Hockenheim´99
    • Lausitzring
    • Barcelona GP/Nat.
    • Castle Combe
    • Donington GP/Nat.
    • etc.....

    wie geschrieben,das sind nur Vorschläge.Ich habe noch unzählige Strecken (eben gerade nachgeschaut 238 Strecken) für R07 die auch online funktionieren und würde die gerne RaceDepartment zu Verfügung stellen.Alles in allem finde ich es gut was ihr für die RD Community leistet.Macht weiter :thumbsup:

    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  5. John Grant

    John Grant
    Dont Rub me up the wrong way

    Thanks for the opportunity to air our view, after reading what
    Daniel Linder said ( quite a mouth full to me but it does make sense in a way) As a total new bee to these races ( only 2 months) i do find the races rather useless, we have noting to work to, trying to achieve a ladder of growth. it seems just all long time racer racing and winning events where new comer do not have a chance to compete against.
    Since i joined I have tried to participate and be active, However i am loosing interest as a new bee i gain absolute nothing. at one stage struggled to take part in events but could not due to fact that i did not have the game or race installed , referring to WTCC ????.

    Now it seems that with the new direction myself and more fellow racer will have to even install more racing games, where does it end ? shortly i will have to renew my membership for a year, and at this stage i have many doubts about it, seems RD is only for the experienced Racers, as i have experienced a lack of help and training, I real have to note that a certain member (Damian) was the only person who took time to monitor me and teach me something about use of track and driving skills,

    For what you have in mind is real good , but you are focusing on experienced drivers, they are not the future of success, its the new-bee`s you need to keep interested, Thanks for letting me state my honest opinion
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. EireGreen™


    Hey John,i like simracing With you,you are objectiv and fair simracer.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. H34d5h07

    No money, no team racing.

    Yeah, I got little carried away with my post, apologize for that.
    And it may have sounded like I was mad, but that's not the case what so ever.
    RD has provided countless of hours of great racing to me. And for that I am grateful.
    And I'm not saying that my points above, are the correct way to go either.
    They are just suggestions after all. But with unlimited experience with modding my games, I know for a fact, that a game that is "officially" dead, is till living on, thanks to modding.

    I can't confirm it at the moment, but I have heard that rFactor is still going strong.
    I know GTR2 is still alive and kicking. So, in theory, it should apply to R07 as well.

    But I agree, this "premium pay wall" sounds like something that was made for hardcore simracers only. As a new member, this is very off-putting. Now, RD may work on a "trial test period", so members can try out for free for a month (?) before they have to pay.
    And some may be more than happy to pay, while others will run away.

    I like to think that most casual club racers, race when they have the time and the energy for it. Meaning, they will likely never know, until the very last minute if they can race or not.
    And if they race maybe once or twice (sometimes more and sometimes less), and having to pay for the privilege to race on/with Monza/WTCC, is going to think "nope, back to offline" or take the chance to race on public servers instead.

    I like the idea of having "unofficial" race series. It will have some kind of a accomplishment feeling over it. Even if it's a false one. Meaning, you don't win loads of cash or something.

    And I agree with John Grant above. It can't be fun to race on a server, where most people leave you in cloud of dust. I know the casual club is just for fun and to have a great time, but it's never fun to be that guy who never see or fight with another racer due to lack of skills and experience. There should be at least 2 servers. One for rookies, and one for Pros. But, I like to think that RD has enough experience and knows what works and what not.

    Even thou, Björn has asked for our help, regarding the new race format. I still can't really say what I like to see in the future. If the list above is all we have to pick from, I feel it's choice between pest or cholera.

    New mods, and new fresh ideas needs to be taken into considerations.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. EireGreen™


    I love it,this OLD Race-Game !
    Cheers, odder ach Prost.
    /mod-edit: Please avoid swearing, even in a positive context :)
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  9. Björn

    Ävver et Hätz bliev he in Kölle

    First of all, I'm going to try to translate Michael's post so the rest of you can chime in on it, as well ;)

    Now, to address a few of your points & concerns:

    • new weekly schedule/interesting cars: Please keep in mind that both the list of possible event formats and the "sample week" are just that - possible & a sample :) I've picked up the IFM as it is usually quite popular, sometimes not quite as much as GT events, sometimes way more. Actually, the GT classes crossed my mind as well as a possible candidate for a "fixed" day (see below)
    • mod tracks: As many of you'll know, we're already running quite a few mod tracks throughout the year - our members have become accustomed to installing these and it works out most of the time without any issues.
      However, there are issues with mod tracks, and as it was pointed out, it's the legibility. There are many tracks out there that are ripped out of other games. While many clubs & communities don't care too much about this (and I don't blame them, to each their own :)), those are no-go's at RD.
      Since Michael mentioned it, here's an example: I was looking into running Norisring when Dennis isn't available in March - however, the versions available seem to be based off of a Codemasters game (author explicitly thanks Codies in the readme), so it's out. The same thing applies to all too many tracks, e.g. Bathurst (converted from NFS:Shift), which would be a blast running.
    • mod cars: Of course, the same issue of legibility applies over here, as well - that aside, there's another problem, though: car mods are often a bit more difficult to install, and although this is not a huge factor, this one is: They break stuff. Some mods do conflict with each other and accumulating more and more mods over time inevitably leads to this exactly. Hence we've been staying away from those for the most parts - IIRC correctly, we ran the V8s in a special event and took the Toyota Corolla Cup around Nords once.
      However, the possible "member request" events would explicitly allow legal car mods (V8s, Formula Ford, Super Touring 98 might be great ideas). In addition to this, and don't tell anyone just yet, I might get another tool out there making mod installs and uninstalls easier ;)
    • community voice: Yeah, that's the whole point of this and the possible "member request" events - we want people to have as much fun as possible and as many events that suits their taste as possible :) I don't know if a weekly poll would be working out too well, but the request topics for the member events might double up as a general "suggestion for future weeks" topic :)
    • event starts: A point that has been brought up in the past, however a poll not too long ago had the current scheme winning over starting an hour earlier.
    • help & training / skill level variety: A very good point indeed - it's good to see users helping each other out, thanks for that! Personally, I recently haven't been able to join our servers as much as I'd like to. However, keep in mind that, among the other benefits, you are entitled to an "official" driving school lesson once you've gone premium - just contact us and we'll find time for that :) Also, if/when Dennis and myself (and many, many others) are on the servers, we're happy to help when asked :)
      On another more personal note - due to a personal incident, I haven't been able to join TS during Friday's race in order to get a TeamViewer session going with you, @John Grant - sorry about that! How does today or tomorrow at about what would normall be race time (20 GMT) sound like?
    • leagues & series: Great to see this is something you're interested in :) While the last try to start a "proper" league wasn't exactly successful, I think these unofficial mini series might be a really nice way to get people to keep on coming out. As I've hinted in the very first bullet of this post, GTs had crossed my mind for a new fixed day, possibly cycling through Club, Sport and Pro. However, they've also crossed my mind for this event format - if the format works out, I think even a multi-class GT mini series would be a great idea, especially as this would double-up as an opportunity to get multiple skill levels in.
    So, I think that's it for now - as stated before, both the formats and the sample week are mere ideas and examples, we'd be thrilled to hear alternative ideas and requests from you guys! :)
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  10. EireGreen™


    Gude Björn, Thanks for translating my words for the guys. "SORRY" :cry: my English is too bad.

    Greets all R07 Racers:thumbsup:
  11. H34d5h07

    No money, no team racing.


    All your points are totally valid, and I get your point. I know from a experience that I don't care if a mod is legal or not, since I use it in offline mode. And I'm pretty sure there more members here does the same. So therefore, it's easy for me to sit here and say "moar mods naow" without actually knowing if they are legal or not, to be used for public. Even thou I personally think this whole legal thing it's crap. Maybe it's because I'm not really that well informed about it. But rules are rules, and they are meant to be broken.
    Nah, just kidding. Rules shall be followed ofc.

    When it comes to adding content to your game, I think some kind of mod manager could help out alot. Like the guys behind Pilsbierbude/Weissbierbude have. They have this installer/updater, and for every car/track they use on their servers, this car/track gets added to some kind database/archive and you just launch this installer/updater and press update. The software will look for new files, and if there are any, the software will download them and install them for you. So, a similar software could be a great tool for just this sort of things. I don't know how much work it would require to create this kind of thing thou....

    The downside is, that most stock content will be broken, for online (public) use, since they have been altered. Either improved or changed in one way or another. It will work fine if server/client files is 100% match, but say you wanna race on a public server. That wont work at all. But on the other hand, some sort of profile system could be implemented. So, if you wanna use altered cars/tracks, you simply pick that, and if you wanna use a clean, none-altered version, you just pick that.

    For the new race ideas, I have been thinking alot, without actually come up with something good. Mostly it's due to what I have mentioned earlier, I'm tired of the content. But, some kind of multi-class series sounds like a great idea. That way, guys who choose to pick something slower, won't feel bad, if another faster class is winning. Since you compete against people who use the same class as you only.

    The downside could be, what if nine people pick a fast class, and one poor guy pick a slower class? Then we have same problem again as I mentioned earlier. I don't think this will happen, thou, just putting it out there anyway. Might be worth to keep in mind.

    I know for a fact. that I will likely only race when Tourers and GT classes are in use. So, give suggestions how you should find a good balance for the rest is difficult right now.
  12. Yes, to me the races on Racedepartment all suit the faster more experienced sim racer.

    Hence my :speechless: (insert head banging against a wall smiley) plea for the allowed use of low or medium driving aids for casual and noob racers who just like to have some casual race fun.
    Yes I know all the fast boys don't like the use of aids as it is not part of sim racing and that only arcade racers use them :rolleyes:, but some us do. It allows us to at least stay on track and occasionally compete a little with the fast guys who spend all their breathing time practising and then leaving us in a cloud of dust for another lonely race.

    I would enter fare more Race 07** club races if I were allowed to use low aids and that is a fact. Perhaps more new guys and the lesser skilled would also enter knowing that at least they could have a race. ;):whistling::whistling:

    ** insert any of the Club race sims here, not just Race 07.

    Regarding the choice of Race 07 cars to use, well me personally I don't like driving the Mini's and I'm not to fussed on open wheelers as I prefer GT classes or American cars but again some of the powerful ones don't get my attention in club races purely because without low aids I spin everywhere and cannot hope to compete at all.

    Just my two penneth. I suppose I will say this. If both Race 07 and GSCE/FT allowed low driving aids like low stab, low TC and low ABS, I would enter far more races in all formats with confidence.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. EireGreen™


    to cooling down !

    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Arunas

    "Polite - punk" - Peter Ell

    I'm loosing interest in R07 because of same content all the time, but in other hand, I have no time for downloading and installing new content in case of my last minute signups. But I want to race and RD is great and friendly community, so I'm thinking about building new PC and newer Sim.
    I'm searching for new challenges and more competitors, which is lacking in R07 RD servers. If we must pay for something, we have to get something and that something is competition, bigger competition come from bigger grid. Who want to drive all week long with 4-6 drivers on the grid, it's boring even if you winning or loosing. I think it is way better to have one race per week (even with default game content), but with full grid, and then everybody can find competitor on the side. But then it comes, why I have to pay for one race per week.. Looks like never ending circle..
    Just my thoughts..
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 2
  15. H34d5h07

    No money, no team racing.


    You nailed it. I feel exactly the same.
  16. How about fixed setup races with allowed low aids. Might make bigger grids? Just a thought.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  17. Hmm, premium - that's intriguing matter. I would buy this, but like many of you, doubts are involved in this case. I love racing here because of fair play and high level of drivers. But, first of all - I don't feel any kind of rivalry here. It's racing! Rivalry is a base of racing! Even when "friendly" (popular word here). Meanwhile, I can't even discuss laptimes here. And a few times I was said "don't fight so much" or "I would rather give away my position than strongly defend it". This is not racing and it's making me not going to buy premium. My dream is to be a part of league based on WTCC or STCC. Touring cars are very popular here, and points classification would probably increase activity of drivers - then they have reason to do their best and to try to show up more often in order to get their points to season classification. This is my view ;)
  18. Will anything come from this discussion?
  19. John Grant

    John Grant
    Dont Rub me up the wrong way

    u can bet on it mate, the organizers are reading and will have discussions about it, this is one of the clubs that things gets done not just talk, a great bunch of people
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Björn

    Ävver et Hätz bliev he in Kölle

    Sorry for the delay on replies, guys - had a rather busy weekend & now work's up again ;)

    So let's see, what have we got:

    • too-well-known content/content in general: I understand where you're coming from.. well, kinda :D I've only been into simracing for something like two years, so there's still a whole lot of content that is new to me - e.g. Poznan this week.
      However, even with the vast amount of tracks R07 and its addons do offer (especially once compared to today's DLC-induced base content), it gets repetitive after some time, sure thing - though I feel we're running quite an amount of tracks, stock and mod alike: hardly any track, apart from Nords, gets run more than twice a year?
      As far as cars are concerned, I can relate more - unfortunately however, many classes and cars do not really get much attention once they're put up as an event (Caterhams, FBMW, Camaro Cup, to name a few) - hence those weren't run that much in recent months.
      Instead, we focused (apart from the obvious TC/Mini action) on GTs, IFM, Radicals and the like - classes that do get at least some signups.
      This was one of the "sparks" igniting my mini-series idea, maybe we can get more people out for the seldom-raced cars once there's further motivation :)
    • lack of competition due to low signups: Yes. Just yes ;) This is indeed a problem, and especially so whenever we're running "exotic" cars.
      However, this is, in my opinion, mostly due to the sheer age of the game. Comparing our signup numbers with RD clubs running games of the same era, it's not looking that bad: rFactor runs similar signup numbers with two events a week, the GTR2 club is.. nonexistent.
      Technically, one could add GSCE, but I'd categorize that one somewhere it between "old-gen" and "next-gen" sims, given what they've achieved with the engine. Still, we do beat their sheer club numbers every now and then, as well ;)
      More/new mod content might attract more drivers, one of the reasons I'd see the "member requests" and maybe even the "mini series" formats as very open ones - i.e. all mods allowed. However, running mods, especially car mods, always keeps other drivers out/uninterested, as well, so that's something to keep in mind.
    • lack of competition regarding fights: Yup, some of us tend to not put up too much of a fight, but IMHO, that's something everyone has to decide for himself - personally, I usually do fight for positions, but sometimes, I too choose to not fight in order to gain a strategic advantage - e.g. DriverA is two positions behind me and running slightly faster. In this scenario I'll let DriverB, who's loads faster and closing in on me, as well, by in order to not lose valuable time to keep my position against DriverA. I'll also act the exact same way in a league. As you see, it's not necessary the lack of willingness to compete ;)
    • speaking of which - leagues: Well.. yeah. As I mentioned before, the last effort to run a R07 league other than Presto was far from successful. However, I can completely relate to the wish of participating in one and am, in fact doing just that over at RlyRR.
      That being said, the aforementioned last effort was initiated by members and no rules were changed prohibiting others to try, as well - so if you feel like you can get a league up, feel free to open up a topic, evaluate interest and hit us up with a rough draft of what you're planning.
      To quote one of the many discussions in the staff forum regarding the premium move: "You're helping to pay for the servers, so you should be able to use them" :)
    • driving aids: Well, personally, I've never driven with aids after leaving GRID and DIRT2 for the simracing world, so I can't relate too much. I also don't think there are too many users out there wishing for them to get enabled, although there are - obviously - some.
      So, much like the mod "freedom", I'd say this is another potential feature the "member request" events might take care of - wanna run with low aids? Alright, request issued, scheduled, and off we go (without spinning ;))!
    • mod management/tool: Since some of my bullet points above were mod-related, I'll chime in on this again - while I'd like to pursue the idea, that likely won't happen until end-march considering I'm currently running quite a workload at my actual job, with this year's CeBIT fair approaching. Stay tuned nontheless, as this might render mod events more accessible to more drivers :)
    Once again, thanks for the input so far, keep it up :)
    • Beer Beer x 1