F1 2012 2012 Car performance & Tiers

[Gavin Hendley]

Hi everyone,
Just looking on peoples thoughts on how 2012 performance is compared to 2011

2011 performance was like this
Tier 5: (1) Caterham, (2) HRT (3) Marussia
Tier 4: (1) Force India, (2) Williams (3) Toro Rosso
Tier 3: (1) Mercedes AMG Petronas, (3) Lotus
Tier 2: (1) Ferrari (2) Sauber
Tier 1: (1) RedBull (2) McLaren

I think 2012 is looking like this
T1 Redbull, Mclaren
T2 Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus, Sauber, Williams
T3 Force India, Torro Rosso
T4 Caterham
T5 Marussia, HRT

How would you rate 2012 performance?

 

[the_sigman]

T1 Red Bull, McLaren
T2 Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus
T3 Sauber, Williams
T4 Toro Rosso, Force India
T5 Caterham, HRT, Marussia

 

[Gavin Hendley]

T1 Red Bull, McLaren
T2 Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus
T3 Sauber, Williams
T4 Toro Rosso, Force India
T5 Caterham, HRT, Marussia

Caterham has KERS it does not belong with HRT and marussia.
Williams is a lot faster than you might think I lapped by a williams when i was in a merc. In a 2012 performance race.

 

[Karl Fuss]

Is the online 2012 car performance the same in Quick Race mode?
I can help test all teams to determine the Tiers if i can do it offline in quick race mode.

 

[Gavin Hendley]

Is the online 2012 car performance the same in Quick Race mode?
I can help test all teams to determine the Tiers if i can do it offline in quick race mode.

I think it is Karl, TT is also 2012 performance Im just being lazy. im hoping someone already knows.
Althought Sauber and Williams could be a match but find it hard to separate them from the merc and lotus.

 

[Karl Fuss]

I'll have a go in a few of them tonight around Montreal. I have an american league race there tonight and again tomorrow so i'll be practicing anyway.

Which one's are most in question? The Merc, Sauber, Williams, and Lotus?
I'll compare them to the McLaren... i refuse to drive the Red Bull for various reasons
I'll use Quick race though... i hate TT

 

[Gavin Hendley]

Perfect thank you

 

[Karl Fuss]

I've not done all the chassis yet, but from what i've tested so far the Tiers are looking like this to me.

Tier 1 - Red Bull, McLaren
Tier 2 - Ferrari, Sauber
Tier 3 - Mercedes, Lotus
Tier 4 - Williams, Force India, Toro Rosso

The Williams and Toro Rosso have significant gearing differences from the faster cars.

The Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, and Sauber may be close enough to have them all in the first tier... need to do a bit more testing with them first though.

 

[w1n1x]

Hi everyone,
Just looking on peoples thoughts on how 2012 performance is compared to 2011

2011 performance was like this
Tier 5: (1) Caterham, (2) HRT (3) Marussia
Tier 4: (1) Force India, (2) Williams (3) Toro Rosso
Tier 3: (1) Mercedes AMG Petronas, (3) Lotus
Tier 2: (1) Ferrari (2) Sauber
Tier 1: (1) RedBull (2) McLaren

I think 2012 is looking like this
T1 Redbull, Mclaren
T2 Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus, Sauber, Williams
T3 Force India, Torro Rosso
T4 Caterham
T5 Marussia, HRT

How would you rate 2012 performance?

Wrong , ferrari in tier 1 too.Maybe because Massa is slow in most races that doesn't mean that the ferrari is slow , when i do quick race or career on any difficulty(Mostly i play on legend) Alonso is the first on most of races of 10 race he finishes 1st in 8 race, so i think it's tier 1.By the way i didn't meant that he is first when i go with him (of course i can beat the ai on legend by 1,5 second , but usually i go with a low tier team for challange and this is the result what came at the end of the race, but oh well it depends if a collosion happens or not but mostly not(I use realistic damage mod on 5x (ultra realistic) and he don't retire.)But i guess it's different for most of the people.

 

[kenken]

According to database.bin,
1: ferrari(0.925), mclaren(0.95), redbull(0.95)
2: mercedes(0.935), lotus(0.935), sauber(0.9)
3: tororosso(0.9), williams(0.9), forceindia(0.9)
4: hrt(0.85), marussia(0.85), caterham(0.85)

The numbers in parentheses are virtual performance, I don't know exact meaning of those.

 

[TranceFM]

Hi everyone,
Just looking on peoples thoughts on how 2012 performance is compared to 2011

2011 performance was like this
Tier 5: (1) Caterham, (2) HRT (3) Marussia
Tier 4: (1) Force India, (2) Williams (3) Toro Rosso
Tier 3: (1) Mercedes AMG Petronas, (3) Lotus
Tier 2: (1) Ferrari (2) Sauber
Tier 1: (1) RedBull (2) McLaren

I think 2012 is looking like this
T1 Redbull, Mclaren
T2 Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus, Sauber, Williams
T3 Force India, Torro Rosso
T4 Caterham
T5 Marussia, HRT

How would you rate 2012 performance?

T 1 Redbull (0.95), McLaren (0.95), Ferrari (0.925)
T 2 Mercedes AMG Petronas (0.935), Lotus (0.935), Sauber (0.9)
T 3 Toro Rosso (0.9), Williams (0,9), Force India (0,9)
T 4 HRT (0,85), Caterham (0,85), Marussia (0,85)

 

[Andrew Ford]

ah the wonders of pc's
i'd love to know what those numbers are because i would like to bet that sauber is very very similar to williams, force india etc.

 

[Karl Fuss]

ah the wonders of pc's
i'd love to know what those numbers are because i would like to bet that sauber is very very similar to williams, force india etc.

From the testing i've done the Sauber is closer to the Ferrari than anything else. Around the Montreal Circuit in race trim the Sauber is more than a second a lap faster than the Toro Rosso, Williams, and Force India. And about half a second a lap faster than the Mercedes and the Lotus.

 

[Andrew Ford]

From the testing i've done the Sauber is closer to the Ferrari than anything else. Around the Montreal Circuit in race trim the Sauber is more than a second a lap faster than the Toro Rosso, Williams, and Force India. And about half a second a lap faster than the Mercedes and the Lotus.

i think there are too many variables to account for in a " i'll take one car out at a time on 1 or 2 tracks" and rate them extremely accurately. there are questions like: what order did you test the cars in? what setups did you try for each car?e.g. maybe sauber suits lower wing better than a mercedes or vice versa....to many to ask, to little time to answer or answers available.

the programming file shows you a pattern. i believe that rather than just giving more power to the top tier cars, the programmers must make top tier cars have better downforce without all the add ons (regardless of setup initially).

i don't want to keep on harping on or claim i'm in the top tier of f1 2012 racers - because i'm clearly not. but at malaysia i was rank 84 at malalysia for tt. i then raced the pro-am in a sauber and was lapped by 2 williams cars. whilst those guys are faster, if the cars they were in were inferior, i don't think they would have lapped me and some....

at malaysia, my pace in a sauber to gavs force india pace was similar to my equal cars mclaren to his equal cars force india. as good a season as sauber had, i don't think the programmers would have intended for sauber to be as good as ferrari or foreseen sauber having as good a season as they had this season in real life imho.

out of curiosity, are you in a sauber this year karl? i've lost track (pardon the pun)

 

[Karl Fuss]

All very good points Andrew.
I have only tested them on the Montreal circuit so far... but will test them elsewhere. I'm not saying my list is definitive because there are still a lot of variables to check. I was very methodical in the tests though. No DRS was used. KERS always in the same spot for the same duration. Mix 2 exclusively. Same fuel level, same tyres, same set-up.

the Williams cars you were lapped by, they were driven by real people or AI?

I'm not as consistent at Malaysia as i am at other circuits... I don't think i could rely on any data i gathered there (especially the third sector).

I'll do some more work over the holidays to see what comes out... Top speed tests and 0-100 tests.

I'm driving the Mercedes again this season btw. But the Sauber does feel really good through the corners.

 

[Rob Every]

I would say the Williams is a top tier car, if you look at the leaderboard times its is always McLaren, Red Bulla nd Ferrari in the top 100 or so.

Every now and then you get a Williams or a Lotus in there too. So I reckon they are perhaps in a little group of thier own!

 

[Andrew Ford]

All very good points Andrew.
I have only tested them on the Montreal circuit so far... but will test them elsewhere. I'm not saying my list is definitive because there are still a lot of variables to check. I was very methodical in the tests though. No DRS was used. KERS always in the same spot for the same duration. Mix 2 exclusively. Same fuel level, same tyres, same set-up.

the Williams cars you were lapped by, they were driven by real people or AI?

I'm not as consistent at Malaysia as i am at other circuits... I don't think i could rely on any data i gathered there (especially the third sector).

I'll do some more work over the holidays to see what comes out... Top speed tests and 0-100 tests.

I'm driving the Mercedes again this season btw. But the Sauber does feel really good through the corners.

thanks karl, you too. the williams cars were driven by jack van and karlo...obviously two fast guys so they would have finished well up....but maybe not the extent they did given my pace on that track. it might be that certain cars suit certain styles more. i always liked the sauber in f1 2011 relative to say the torro rosso or force india (one had mass understeer and the other oversteer- for me). however, i found the back end slipping a bit on the sauber this year and much prefer the williams. i don't like redbull in real life or ferrari, so i refuse to drive them, but mclaren, lotus and williams...love em in real life so driving offline in them is nice as well as a nice feel of balance.

good luck in merc! i'm not a fan of none british cars but after the way mclaren seemed to treat hamilton, i'm rooting for him next year ;-)

 

[Deleted member 137812]

HOLY COW, me and my friends just started a championship with Lotus a Williams. And a Williams almost has the exact same pace as a Lotus. Its better than a Mercedes and Sauber. Im shocked...

 

[nackey505]

2nd season Caterham passes are adding up points ,Toro Rosso's passed down and does not move from position 20
I do? for it does not happen that??

 

[kimi_iceman85]

HOLY COW, me and my friends just started a championship with Lotus a Williams. And a Williams almost has the exact same pace as a Lotus. Its better than a Mercedes and Sauber. Im shocked...

Lotus has much more grip than williams, so despite they are equally fast ,for an average driver, or at least for me, lotus is much easier to drive = less mistakes, easier to drive on the limit, and therefore better lap times