2010 Formula One British Grand Prix

[Yves Larose]

i'm siding with Xosé on this one, lets go back to the Valencia incident. it tooks 20 laps or so to gave Hamilton the penality which had for result that he haven't lost a place and was still plenty ahead of the car behind. now today Alonso incident, the penality has always been to give back the position to driver you overtook by cutting the track and that would have been the penality that Alonso would have got if Kubica haven't retire cause something broke on the car which was in no fault from Alonso, true Alonso got an advantage over Kubica but not the entire field while Hamilton at Valencia got an advantage over the entire field. Xosé have a point when he says that F1 is ruled by money and its not just F1 that is like that, Golf, who is the best selling man for the sport... Tiger Wood, he retired and he was pressured to get back in cause the Golfing association was loosing money. the NHL now, who is the sport sellers, Crosby and Ovechekin and let me tell you that on the ice they can do things that would normally get penalized but they are not cause they are the sport sellers and its better to see them on ice and not in the penality box ( and some case suspension ). Whats Xosé is trying to say is that in F1 it became rediculous and far more too obivious that they are ruling so they can sell the F1 and makes more money, its not Hamilton nor Alonso fault but one is gaining while the other is loosing by the FIA ruling and thats what is pissing me off.

 

[Warren Dawes]

Hmmmnnnn!!! Did anything else happen in this race besides the Kubica and Alonso "incident"?

These F1 events have strange TV coverage at times. I stayed up and watched the race this time, and the Race leader and winner must have been shown about twice on TV. They almost missed him crossing the finish line to take the chequered flag, it was a case of, "oh by the way, Webber has won the race".

Webber's radio comments after the finish at least gave me a chuckle, but clearly showed his state of mind for this race. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the post race discussions at Red Bull.:eek:

 

[Warren Dawes]

now today Alonso incident, the penality has always been to give back the position to driver you overtook by cutting the track and that would have been the penality that Alonso would have got if Kubica haven't retire cause something broke on the car which was in no fault from Alonso, true Alonso got an advantage over Kubica but not the entire field

BTW: Then why didn't Alonso give back the position soon after the cut track? If I recall, Kubica didn't retire from the race until quite a few laps after this "incident". Clearly, Alonso had no intentions of redressing this one.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

Webber's radio comments after the finish at least gave me a chuckle, but clearly showed his state of mind for this race. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the post race discussions at Red Bull.:eek:

IMHO what Red Bull is doing with Webber is really unfair, but I think I know the reasons as I said few posts before.

He has enough arguments to be really pissed off, and I hope RBR don't prevent him to try to win the WC ahead of Vettel, I think this is probably his last chance to be WC and I really think he deserves it more than any other.

Cya!.

 

[Sérgio Marques]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/7/11016.html

When race control decides the safety car is needed, a safety-car period will commence as usual, but the safety car will not necessarily join the circuit immediately. Instead it will attempt to pick up the leader and ensure no drivers are unnecessarily disadvantaged.
If it is not possible to pick up the leader, cars between the safety car and the leader will be waved through immediately.

This is how it always should be, Hamilton should never be penalized in Valencia and like him also the Ferrari's should have passed the SC.

The poor guy was penalized and criticized, but with his move a bad rule was fixed it.

 

[James Johnson]

BTW: Then why didn't Alonso give back the position soon after the cut track? If I recall, Kubica didn't retire from the race until quite a few laps after this "incident". Clearly, Alonso had no intentions of redressing this one.

Exactly.. He had plenty of time on the exit of club going down to abbey to let kubica back pass but obviously he didnt.

 

[Yves Larose]

BTW: Then why didn't Alonso give back the position soon after the cut track? If I recall, Kubica didn't retire from the race until quite a few laps after this "incident". Clearly, Alonso had no intentions of redressing this one.

the answer is simple, Alonso said on the radio that he was pushed out of the track by Kubica so therefor in his mind he didn,t cut the track he simply made a move to avoid a contact the same way he would have done it on a straight and futher more if you look at the video

you can see that they are side by side at the apex so its for both driver to give enuff room to each other which Kubica didn't do so for me its a race incident and no penality should have been given to Alonso but thats just my point of view and like i always say to my friend when it come to applying a rule and judging an event its never objective its always subjective and in this case everybody is right and everybody is wrong its all depend on how you see the incident while the Hamilton incident at Valencia is much more simple, did he or did he not cross the line before the SC, if he did then a penality, if not do nothing and in both situation it doesn't take long to determine to give a penality or not and to apply it.

 

[ufunacaoenn]

But still he had the quicker car then why not give the posision back and overtake him again and this time in a more fair way. I see that kubica does not give me eny room at all but 2 days ago on Grand Prix Online I made the same move on a driver and did not give him room to my opponent so he made allmost the same cut but that driver let me pass and then tryed to repass me.

If Alonso made the same thing he would be doinging it safely and nothing of this would have happened. With other words, Alonso hade nothing to gain but alot to lose.

If I dont rimember wrong there have been an other taking move where a driver in this years F1 made some cut but gave the posision back.

IMHO I think we should drop this topic about Alonso since this penalty have been allready given and we have traded enough opinions about the insident and about a person that has exacly nothing to do with eny insidents on the Silverstone race.

 

[Chris Cronshaw]

The easiest thing for Alonso to do was give the position back immediately. If they had any doubt over the legality of the manoeuvre the best option would have been to give the position back and live to fight another day.
Alonso is as profitable to F1 as Hamilton. You only need to look at the Spanish GP crowds going from 35,000 to 120,000 with his arrival. And the addition of Valencia. So any talk of favouritism by F1 and the FIA toward the people that bring in the money is ridiculous as Alonso is arguably the most proffitable driver in the sport at the moment, in the most proffitable team.

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Leaving the drive-through penalty to one side for a minute, and concentrating purely on the incident, is what Kubica did to Alonso actually any worse than what Alonso did to Massa?

The only difference is that Alonso was able to take the place by cutting, whereas when he squeezed Massa, the track then went back the other way, meaning that Massa had no advantage to cut.

 

[Péter Bártfai]

To be honest, from the inside turning into that chicane, Kubica couldn't turn in tighter, he didn't push off Alonso willingly, simply that corner isn't wide enough to pass from the other side there! Alonso should have known that, and instead pulling ahead Kubica with cutting that corner, he should try the pass later, where it is possible! After the whole incident he should have given the position back to Kubica right at the moment, we've seen similar incidents in Monaco as well before, it was always the cutter giving back the position! So I think he deserved the pentalty, bad luck that the Safety car just came in after because of the Sauber falling apart.

 

[David Garcia]

LOL guys, it is unvelibeable that you (as sim racers you are) don´t have a clear vission of what happened there and only Ross, Yves and Xosé have a good perspective of the move. When I say perspective I mean from the driver´s point of view.

This is not that clear the position had to be turned back to Kubicka as Alonso reached the cornern a bit infront of the polish driver. Alonso didn´t cut to win a position (it was already won as the next corner was a right hander), but to avoid a contact with Kubica. Anyway, Alonso asked via radio to the team, the team to Race Control and then they had to decide on the mather...

The funny thing is the short time it took to make that unfair and disproportionated decision and apply the penalty, and the fast decision to release the safety car for that carboon pieces on track. At Valencia there was a 1,5 liter beer bootle on track and it was a Marshall risking his integrity running to the bootle... I am getting done of that sport, if it really is.

The funny thing about F1 is that you can get steal and you can´t say it is unfair. You got steal and you have to smile, otherwise you will pay it as Alonso payed at Silverstone his words after Valencias race. Race Marshalls and Race Direction should be 100% compossed by ex drivers, this would be the only way to make things work.

BBC analysts Martin Brundle and David Coulthard described the decision as "extremely harsh".
It was the second race in succession that Alonso has lost places controversially in connection with a stewards' decision and he is now 47 points - or nearly two wins - behind Hamilton in the championship.

Thanks for the quote Xosé.

Next year they will spend 912837192837129 € millions looking to grant overtakings on F1, and when they have one, the drivers gets a penalty. I agree, give the tittle to McLaren and let the others fight for P2.

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Well, Ross, Yves & Xose certainly agree with your take on it.

That doesn't mean it's the de facto correct view.

Incidentally, I also think the drive through was to much, and too late.

But I also think that if Alonso does that to others, he hasn't really got a leg to stand on when people do it to him.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

That doesn't mean it's the de facto correct view.

But I'm not trying to say that wen I say "talk about facts".

What I'm trying to say is when we analyze a situation, argument about it, why is right or wrong, but not deny the situation itself.

For instance, when I say "they always change rules after Hamilton incident", someone can say "true, but is because the rules are not clear before". That's an argument (subjective) about a fact (objective), and is what I talk about. Saying "when they did that?" is not an argument, it's deny a fact.

Hope I explained myself better now

 

[Xosé Estrada]

The easiest thing for Alonso to do was give the position back immediately. If they had any doubt over the legality of the manoeuvre the best option would have been to give the position back and live to fight another day.
Alonso is as profitable to F1 as Hamilton. You only need to look at the Spanish GP crowds going from 35,000 to 120,000 with his arrival. And the addition of Valencia. So any talk of favouritism by F1 and the FIA toward the people that bring in the money is ridiculous as Alonso is arguably the most proffitable driver in the sport at the moment, in the most proffitable team.

Spanish market is very small, 40.000 people.

Even with the raise of public in Barcelona or Valencia we are talking about very small numbers.

 

[David Garcia]

Well, Ross, Yves & Xose certainly agree with your take on it.

That doesn't mean it's the de facto correct view.

Who said that it have to be the correct view for everybody? But, for me it is and I try to argument it. Anyway, I have to admit it surprised me that a big part of the guys that posted here find it correct and fair.

 

[James Johnson]

Who said that it have to be the correct view for everybody? But, for me it is and I try to argument it. Anyway, I have to admit it surprised me that a big part of the guys that posted here find it correct and fair.

Yes.. What did you want kubica to do? Dissappear? He took the line that he could of took under the circumstances.. I dont think he could of turned in any tigher when he is already coming from a tight line. Alonso trying to hold the outside was too optimisitc as going into club it gets much tighter and anyways Kubica was still on the racing line going through there.

 

[Ryan Callan]

If Kubica had still been on track, the instruction would have been to let him back through. A simple 10 second penalty post-race would have been much more fair.

The double whammy of the SC didn't help - however, you could argue that Ferrari should have been on the ball and instead of arguing, brought Alonso immediately - recognising that there was a lot of debris on track (for a good couple of minutes before the SC was brought out). If they had done that then Alonso would have lost two positions max and everyone would have been closed back up again.

So while I disagree with the decision, it was too harsh, Ferrari could have minimised to almost nothing if they had got their skates on.

 

[Chris Cronshaw]

Whether in front or not i don't believe Alonso can argue he had track position, you put yourself on the outside into a corner, your asking to be squeezed and thats what happened. It happened in 08 to Hamilton at spa, the penalty being identical to Alonso yesterdat. Gaining an advantage by cutting the track. I can imagine the cheers that went up in 08 by the Alonso followers when Hamilton was hard done to, but now it's happened to your boy, its an outrage and a conspiracy. If you use 08 as the benchmark then the penalty is just and fair.

Now for me Vettel escaped punishment yesterday when he got into the side of Sutil forcing him wide a couple laps from the end.

 

[Nigel Atkins]

Now for me Vettel escaped punishment yesterday when he got into the side of Sutil forcing him wide a couple laps from the end.

yeah from the tv shots it did look like a barge past, the stewards have access to the on board stuff.

i think when he jumped the curb onto the hanger straight forcing the last 2 cars to go either side of him was dangerous.

maybe all this Hamilton Alonso stuff is just a smoke screen to hide the real FIA favorite lol