University of Hertfordshire

Dear all,

Recently, in University of Hertfordshire we received £250k worth Cruden racing simulator and it seems to use Racer software. So I was given an assignment to find and download a couple of Grand Prix and other tracks, and a few cars, and report back to academics. I seem to struggle to launch Racer on my PC and any associated progs like Pacejka, modeler etc. I would really appreciate some help from website administration and other users on how to start using Racer and all associated software!

Kind regards,
Anton
 
900,000 polygons is a lot for a car...

It may cause you issues because from what I can figure out (Racer.nl docs are a bit weak in this area), any given DOF file can only contain geometric meshes that have 2.pwr.16 vertices... if I remember correctly.
And then I'm not sure if that means any given material applied to meshes doesn't go over that quantity of vertices either.

Basically, you might see some faces disappear.


I'd like exact clarification on what we can and can't do in this regard. It was discussed on another thread, but it's lost now and search on this forum is useless.

Dave
 
Hey guys! Another shout for help! My model has just a frame, a steering wheel and four wheels and the poly counter is already around 900,000. Would it be a problem for Racer application or it's just a casual thing?

Regards,
Anton

Hey Anton.
Um yeah, WAY overkill. You should be more around 50,000 max. total. Normally tires don't need to be any more than 28 radial segments for instance. If a panel hides part of the frame, you don't need to draw it too. You will be surprised at how much detail can be left out and you will never notice it. Using a CAD program to make it will give you 10x more data than you need.
I normally would suggest a separate interior model, but with a Formula SAE you can pretty much see the whole car anyway.
Try looking at one of the better models from Stecki or Some1 in wireframe mode to get a feel for the amount of detail you need.

Alex Forbin
 
Another idea is to remember that this is just an approximation of the visuals, so an engine would be fine as a texture mapped
crude outline, no need to draw each fin on an air-cooled head for example. Straight tubing will only need one section when you
reach a curve add the required number of segments to make it fairly smooth. There's an art to it but you will get the hang of it.
Stecki was a master at optimization, check out his cars (BMW Mini, '05 Mustang).

Alex Forbin
 
Thanks Mr Whippy and Alex!

Mr Whippy, if you don't mind stating the location of this "optimize" tool in 3ds max (because I am still new to it) I would very much appreciate it, but only if you have time.

Alex, as you probably understood from my previous silly questions about conversions (sorry), I am not actually modelling the vehicle but I am trying to get the model out of the CAD assembly (which SO full of a lot of unnecessary details). I got rid of most of the suspension, steering, drivetrain, engine, and still - the frame itself is 431k polys heavy. I am trying to avoid complete re-modelling of the whole vehicle by all means (which would mean there is no simple way of taking the vehicle down into simulator - not preferable). Would the optimization function in 3ds max or deep exploration actually 'optimize' it to such extremely low values to be actually able to run the model in Racer application or is re-modelling unavoidable?
 
The optimise tool is a mesh modifier under the 'modify' tab in 3DS Max. It is alongside modifiers such as 'edit poly' 'ffd box' 'bend' etc etc...

Kinda top right of screen, then come back in about 3cm, then down 1cm, there are like a tab of buttons across the top of the tab that runs down the entire right hand side of the screen. There is 'create' 'modify' etc. Select modify tab, select the object you want to modify, then select 'optimise' from the drop down menu...

Hope that helps. If not I'll add more detail later :D

Dave
 
In terms of cutting back parts of the model, Racer's not actually using the visible model for physics - it's just a matter of looking correct on the screens. So the cockpit, front wheels, and outer body shell are really the main things that I'd worry about being accurate.

You could also save a lot by just chopping off everything behind the camera, but that would look funny on track cameras or replays :p
 
@Stereo
In fact, i am not actually interfering with parts in any way, except deleting them or optimizing, but an idea of deleting everything that cannot be seen is already sort of done, because as I said before I have no bodywork on the car, well, in fact, I have nothing except frame, floor panels, seat, steering wheel and wheels; and it still was 900k poly heavy.

@Mr Whippy
Thank you very much! This was one of the major breakthroughs since I started the project. So far I have a model (see before for what it comprises of) in *.max file extension and it is only 70k poly heavy in total. So the only thing left for the graphic side of the project to be done is to translate it into *.dof file format.

Btw, do you or does anyone actually know if there is *.dof exporter for 3ds max 2011 or 2012?
 
Some1 has made a DOF exporter from 3DS Max > DOF.

However, for a car, you might be best going to ASE file (3DS Max export > ASE), then import the ASE in 'modeller.exe', import ASE, then export to DOF from there.

Modeller isn't brilliant, but it probably works better for cars currently. Some1's tool is better for tracks really!


Dave
 
Thanks for a tip! I'll try it.

The next thing I am concerned about is how to set a nullpoint and how to define all the other parts' offsets with respect to this nullpoint? In other words - how do I find out what do I write in car.ini for 'offset' function?

Regards,
Anton
 
I'd set the null point in 3DS Max, very close to the CofG of the car at rest.

You shouldn't really need offsets then.

You then put the suspension coordinates in for x, y and z. In 3DS Max these should be easy to set because your CofG of the car model will be at 3DS Max world coordinates 0,0,0 (x,y,z)... so wherever the wheel is placed in 3DS Max will be the same offset for Racer.
Ie, in 3DS Max your wheel might be at 1.5m forward and 0.8m out from the centreline of the car, so those are the coords you would use for the car.ini entries.

Does that make sense?

I believe there is some ok documentation on this on racer.nl website.


From that you can then fine tune the CofG using the CofG offset, to get the weight distribution and height perfect...


Have you tried the simulator out much yet with some cars?

Dave
 
Yes, it does. Thanks Dave! I think I'll first need to get my scale right because all these conversions from CAD really screwed it up. I'll try as you say and then report back if I have any issues. Thanks again!

Uhmm, yes, and pretty much I would say. I tried all three vehicles we have installed at the moment - Renault Megane (SuperMegaTurboSmth version), BMW M3, and F1 Cruden Therealthing (I am not joking about the name. It came with programm like that). To be honest, it's an impressive piece of equipment. In first week of it being installed in the uni (during the summer) it already gathered about a dozen of interested and devoted students DAILY. Up until the point when it was banned because of some sort of administrative changes. The motion base gives an unforgettable feeling of how hard it actually is to keep a vehicle stable and not to upset it. Every bump on the road could be felt with your bum (irony)! That's how real it is. And we had some students, who are professional racing drivers, testing it and their remarks were all the same "It feels real!". My point is, if you are ever lucky enough to get a chance on it - don't miss it! You won't regret it! OR come to my uni, I'll introduce you as independent Racer expert and you'll have a go on ours! ))

P.S. The thing about CofG is I am not trying to get it perfect but as close as possible to this year's car, which means I have some real data about the car from our 7 post rig test at Lola Racing this year.
P.S.S. After I/we learn how to simulate our car in Racer, I think we will be working on live data streaming to our so-called "pit-lane", which at the moment is just a wall of blank monitors. :DD
 
The simulators are good.

The F1 car does feel great on the simulator!

The only issue I had, probably because I like to consider perceptions vs real life a great deal and it's cool to play mentally with the idea, was that you can easily look outside the screens and see the world is moving around a lot.

I think if you had a black canopy and were a bit more sealed off from the outside world, it would work a great deal better. Just blocking off your peripheral vision etc.

What would be even more interesting is stereoscopic HD glasses (small LCD/fresnel lenses in each eye piece), so you can look around inside the car, and see 'virtual' arms moving in the real cockpit etc. I think that would start to get very very real feeling indeed.


Only downside is the scaling of the g forces, but you get used to that quite quickly I think. After a day sim-racing at home, then driving my real car, it feels REALLY fast in real life just setting off down the street haha!

Dave
 

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