The Other Side of iRacing...

It seems for every few good words said about iRacing, there are many awful horror stories about the way members are treated by staff and administration. The more friends I'd make in the community, the more I'd hear, and it became genuinely upsetting to know that a great platform for competitive online racing was tarnished by incompetent moderators and a definite agenda in the upper ranks.

I was hoping never to experience this "side" of iRacing as my experience with it has been mostly positive until a few months ago when the game switched primarily to a NASCAR sim, but only recently did I finally have a less than stellar run-in with the Admins.

I am known for running more "alternative" custom paint schemes on iRacing, as I would rather run a bright pink car than a real-world scheme to associate myself as a fan of a certain driver. HOWEVER, before I began my foray into painting, I contacted the head of the custom schemes department and asked for the exact guidelines as to what is allowed on custom schemes. He assured me that almost anything goes aside from blatantly racist or homophobic cars, and that iRacing can't ban you for a custom paint scheme because everyone has different standards when it comes to offensive content.

I always stay well within the guidelines.

So, for the new Nascar iRacing Series, I worked out a deal with an Xbox Live buddy to have her online persona advertised on my Chevy SS. I put over 2000 miles on the car over the course of two weeks, running in front of high ranking drivers and staff members. Not once, was anything said about my paint scheme even being remotely "offensive", because it was nothing more than a Leopard Print car with links to the social media accounts of my Xbox Live buddy.

I ended up having a successful first race weekend in the Nascar iRacing series, posting two top fives, leading almost half of one race, and actually WINNING another race against none other than Ray Alfalla and several other DWC drivers, although a couple times I was warned by a good friend "don't race him too hard." I laughed; this isn't real Nascar, it's a video game.

On Monday, my iRacing account had been suspended for 60 days, for violation of the "custom paint scheme" policy. iRacing lets you appeal this sort of thing, so here were the main points I made.

- It's a legit advertisement and no way is any part of the scheme intended to "harrass" other members or be a display of senseless vulgarity
- I put over 2000 miles on the car, and was not informed there was even an issue until EIGHT MINUTES AFTER my account was deactivated, despite competing against the same users for over two weeks
- A facebook post by a prolific iRacing member clearly shows users ganging up to protest me despite not actually being offended by the car, which I provided evidence of
- Other users, including high ranked and high profile users, have run much more "vulgar" schemes with zero repercussions, some of which are still in use over a year later
- I was told by the head of the custom paint scheme department that there was no issue with any of my cars
- I was told by the head of the custom paint scheme department that iRacing can't ban you for a custom paint scheme because each user has different standards when it comes to offensive content
- I was told by the head of the custom paint scheme department that if a user is so gravely offended by a custom paint scheme, there is a user-friendly block button to avoid seeing any of that user's schemes
- Any custom scheme featuring logos the user does not own the rights to (example: any replica scheme) is in violation of the custom scheme policy and that user can be subjected to a ban

I was given a one sentence response:
Our policy regarding custom paints is pretty clear and other peoples alleged violations doesn't justify yours or relieve you of being held accountable for your personal actions.

After talking with several iRacing friends over facebook, they began to inform me of the "other side" of iRacing, one hindered by politics, agendas, and cliques. One very high ranked member in particular stated over and over again that "black stripe" drivers often band together and protest anyone who is seen as a legitimate threat to their "exclusive club." Another mentioned a situation where an entire group of road racers were threatened with lifetime bans for a comment one user made during a live broadcast that wasn't even derogatory (think Denny Hamlin).Another high profile user was suspended for a week for failing to merge properly when coming out of the pits during a practice session. A relatively unknown user was given a two week suspension when his wheel mount snapped and he uncontrollably spun into another car, even after providing iRacing said pictures of his broken wheel. Some users are given full account refunds for simply complaining to the right person, while others are told that iRacing "doesn't give out refunds." One members parents PAID the admins not to have their child banned or suspended. This is after maybe half a day of talking to a few different people over Xbox and Teamspeak.

This is on top of the insanely misguided development cycle that focuses primarily on NASCAR content, scheduling car and track combinations that would never occur in the real world (IndyCars at Talladega), releasing new content while ignoring basic flaws in the tire model that make several cars completely unstable and horrible to drive (even compared to amateur rFactor mods), providing default setups created by drivers who are 4-5 seconds off pace, making aero adjustments to primarily suit 3 out of the 31 cars in the game, and implementing touch screen driving controls instead of sorting out netcode problems that have ruined many races for the better part of a year.

The Lotus 49 isn't coming out for a long while, either. You're better off re-installing Grand Prix Legends.

I'm posting this here because iRacing promotes themselves as a "world-class racing simulation" and costs several times more than what most people are willing to payto drive pretend cars on the computer.The average consumer deserves to know the downfalls before dropping $100 per year, plus $200 on average to race in a few series every week.

We're talking about a company that, seven years ago, tried to sue its own fanbase because they were worried that free community mods would be of a better quality than the retail game and would take away potential sales.
 
Hmmmm - seems a little biased to me. And i can't keep wondering why Racedepartment has made the STC Blue Cup with iRacing if the road side is so terrible.

Perhaps i should explain 2 lines about my sim background - which is next to non, as i have been flying Falcon 4.0 for several years until about a year ago where that started to bore me. I looked around and found iRacing to have a genius plan for racing in a sim as an adult (not by age but by attitude and approach). In my work i have 10 years of experience of driving fast in traffic in a somewhat powerful car. Those years included ½ yearly drivers education on a racetrack.

When i started in iRacing it was old tire-model. To me the cars were as dull as most other sim's were at that point - one could not feel the car move on top of the tires. Now 5+ versions into the new tire-model i think iRacing has come very near a realistic tire-model. It is true that one can complain about the "first lap on cold tires" are the fastest lap, but there are tires out in the world that do behave like that. So for now i can "roll play" and accept the tires that all teams and drivers have been given in the series i drive - its equal to anyone.

I was no fan of tire-model ver4 that was bad in sidewall stiffness and induced "tankslappers" and low speed spins en-mass. But ver-4½ is much much better with nearly only remaining problem being the first lap being fastest as the only problem.

I totally disagree that the roadside is so horrible as you describe Austin. On the contrary. Try to watch the full race replay from STC 90 minutes of Sebring (here), or the NEO races from Sebring (here) or any of GlacierTV's Proto&GT races (archives found here).

That said i hope I'm entitled to my opinion without being categorized a "FanBoy". If you are interested i can send you a couple of setups for the C6R that tames that car and makes is a dream to drive.
 
Perhaps i should explain 2 lines about my sim background - which is next to non, as i have been flying Falcon 4.0 for several years until about a year ago where that started to bore me.

F4 is still a great combat flight sim. When the the F4UT picked it and put out the SPs, it became even larger, even better. But that was over 10 years ago.

That said i hope I'm entitled to my opinion without being categorized a "FanBoy".

Of course, anyone is entitled to an opinion. Your "opinion" is that it is great, Austin's and others' is that it is not (physics wise). My opinion is that it is a great service and a good sim, but tires are still flawed (even without using telemetry anyone can understand and prove that, as was stated in the past). Btw, you are confusing versions with builds - unless we are officially under NTM 5.0...

And in terms of opinion, the opinions of professional drivers who have tried (and still are trying, waiting for an evolution in the right direction) iRacing is that road cars especially are very flawed in two areas: tires and the feedback they get from changes to aerodynamics. If they say GT cars and protos are (behaviour wise) rock-solid and "on rails", firmly set on the ground even over curbs, then that puts into perspective your "i think iRacing has come very near a realistic tire-model".

Hint for you:

while you may have driven powerful cars in your daily life (so have I, on track days as well), you don't mention your experience with GT cars. The amount of negative lift these cars can achieve at moderate to high speeds is impressive; they ought (and they do) to remain firmly "stuck" to the ground even on the limit.

But there's more: the work on suspensions by team engineers allows for a very compliant car, something you don't usually experience outside professional racing.

There is no way your experience with "powerful road cars" can compare to GT cars (and even less to prototypes), therefore the easy sliding (actually, constant sliding), the loss of traction at low speeds, the snap-oversteer (better today than it was 2 years ago, indeed), etc, do not reflect the stability of real of race cars.

Finally, again, fanboyism and haters: this silly debate should have ended years ago but it is still very much alive with iRacing and pCARS. For obvious reasons, some of them exactly the same. If one loves iRacing, just for the joy of it, then great. If one dislikes iRacing for very objective reasons, then great also. If one hates iRacing, then ok too. The only thing that really matters is that a great service such as this continues to evolve towards becoming a better sim (with, eventually, more tracks - the best out there - and more cars), making for a very choice to simracers.
 
No gains can be made with fanboys defending their chosen object of worship, which then swells the heads and wallets of the developers.
It's as plain as day that hi downforce form factor cars have huge grip levels with modern tires{at their peak}, yet some of the cars in iracing and rf2 for that matter defy this.
 
And one has to wonder: why?

Bruno Spengler said, a couple of weeks ago, on Mobil 1: The Grid what several Japanese pro drivers said of their SUPERGT cars: "we can pull on the brakes and on corner up to 3 and 3.5g".

The team engineer with NISMO and Calsonic said their cars hit above the 3g mark in several corners at Fuji and Suzuka. He also talked about negative lift above 6000 N (above 600 kgf) at over 220 kph.

Not all GT cars and classes are allowed to develop such levels of negative lift, but from the telemetry of several cars (Viper GTSR, the C6r, the Z4, the F430 and MC12) at several tracks it is not unusual for these cars to hit 2.8g (with sustained cornering at over 1.7g).

How can developers justify loss of traction at less than 1g, low speeds, on clean surfaces, and balanced cars?

"Harder is realistic", the myth...
 
How can developers justify loss of traction at less than 1g, low speeds, on clean surfaces, and balanced cars?
I don't think there's any justification. They've acknowledged that the cars loose too much grip past their peak slip. That's supposed to be one of the things they hope to fix with the next tire update, along with the compound model.
 
I don't think there's any justification. They've acknowledged that the cars loose too much grip past their peak slip. That's supposed to be one of the things they hope to fix with the next tire update, along with the compound model.

That was a rhetorical question, anyway. And it was not directed at iRacing alone, but at rF2 and other sims in which, due to the tire model or errors from calibration, grip is lost too much and too fast past the peak.

But lets be clear about something: this issue ("cars loose too much grip past their peak slip") has been around since the beginning of iRacing. I remember testing an early 2009 version at a friend's and noticing the drive on ice of all cars - that was almost 4 years ago. The one build/version where this changed significantly was with the pre-release of the NTM. Then, for some reason, on came 2.0 and the good handling was gone and back in force came the drive on ice feel. And since then, I have read on the forums about a fix or some important changes in the horizon that would definitely change this, but that never happened.
 
That was a rhetorical question, anyway. And it was not directed at iRacing alone, but at rF2 and other sims in which, due to the tire model or errors from calibration, grip is lost too much and too fast past the peak.

But lets be clear about something: this issue ("cars loose too much grip past their peak slip") has been around since the beginning of iRacing. I remember testing an early 2009 version at a friend's and noticing the drive on ice of all cars - that was almost 4 years ago. The one build/version where this changed significantly was with the pre-release of the NTM. Then, for some reason, on came 2.0 and the good handling was gone and back in force came the drive on ice feel. And since then, I have read on the forums about a fix or some important changes in the horizon that would definitely change this, but that never happened.

Yeah, I agree on this one. It was very disappointing to see what happened after the first official NTM release.

However, in my opinon the Ford GT is the first road car (since the last build) that has some "planted" feeling. I hope the next build will make other cars behave a bit like this one, but as you said sometimes they improve for some build, and in the next one they go backwards ... (like with the F1).
 
Nice one-sided story Austin. It literally is a story.
I think the author has some valid points. However, these valid points get diluted down by bringing in his negative emotions of iracing. I think if he cleared up the article, found a proper editor at RD to edit any emotionally-charged content, and republished then it would be well received.
(imho of course :) )
 
I haven't checked into this thread in a while but it's neat to see what it turned into.

I'm sorry, but the review wasn't "emotionally charged." It was written purely because there was no current iRacing review from a sim-head standpoint. RaceDepartment brought back their review section, and you can only review old games for so long before being considered irrelevant. What better way than to take a look at one of the biggest sims out there today?

Aside from the name of the author causing obvious drama, a lot of people seem to think the review was spot-on. As for the fanboys, let's put it this way: My real name is attached to my posts and I don't have the luxury of hiding behind an alias to spread misinformation whenever I see fit. I will NEVER include "outrageous claims" in my articles or posts unless I 100% believe they're correct.

One thing I'm finding comical though, is how hypocritical some of the fanboys have been throughout all of this. I have been ripped to shreds over on the official iRacing forums by guys who say I have no clue what I'm talking about when it comes to the road cars, only to see those exact same people trashing the physics & tire model in a completely different thread.
 
It is pretty obvious from your review and posts here that you are quite emotional about iRacing.

There is a saying in these parts, "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt" to which I add "yeah, it is also a psychological coping mechanism!"



I haven't checked into this thread in a while but it's neat to see what it turned into.

I'm sorry, but the review wasn't "emotionally charged." It was written purely because there was no current iRacing review from a sim-head standpoint. RaceDepartment brought back their review section, and you can only review old games for so long before being considered irrelevant. What better way than to take a look at one of the biggest sims out there today?

Aside from the name of the author causing obvious drama, a lot of people seem to think the review was spot-on. As for the fanboys, let's put it this way: My real name is attached to my posts and I don't have the luxury of hiding behind an alias to spread misinformation whenever I see fit. I will NEVER include "outrageous claims" in my articles or posts unless I 100% believe they're correct.

One thing I'm finding comical though, is how hypocritical some of the fanboys have been throughout all of this. I have been ripped to shreds over on the official iRacing forums by guys who say I have no clue what I'm talking about when it comes to the road cars, only to see those exact same people trashing the physics & tire model in a completely different thread.
 
It is pretty obvious from your review and posts here that you are quite emotional about iRacing.

There is a saying in these parts, "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt" to which I add "yeah, it is also a psychological coping mechanism!"

Patroclus, you may be right about him being emotional - heck, most of us are quite emotional in regards to iRacing or our favourite sims, iRacing probably a bit more given the investment we make (money, time and patience).

But what points get "diluted" by emotional charge? And how?

Favouritism? Well, some folks call others idiots, baboons, idiot savants (yep, several times I read that and thrown at members who actually work in motorsports as engineers or technicians) and not a single warning was issued against them. On the other hand, other members who are known for posing questions that for some reason devs seem unwilling to answer, get warnings. Are you aware of how many times a certain individual (notorious for being banned from VirtualR, GTP and iRacing) posted offensive/rude/foul language against other members before he was banned? And why? Because he was a typical, relentless "iRacing is the best so shut the f-word up" kind of guy.

Elitism? It speaks for itself.

Physics problems? Obviously, deniers will deny and mock people with or without videos, with or without telemetry, professional drivers or otherwise.

Costs? It speaks for itself as well.

Driver behaviour? Who would expect that, in a pay-to-race system, bad behaviour, worse, reiterated bad behaviour warrants little more than a slap in the wrist?

So...what exactly are the valid points that get diluted? Where is his review failing to deliver the realistic picture of iRacing?
 
So, for the new Nascar iRacing Series, I worked out a deal with an Xbox Live buddy to have her online persona advertised on my Chevy SS. I put over 2000 miles on the car over the course of two weeks, running in front of high ranking drivers and staff members. Not once, was anything said about my paint scheme even being remotely "offensive", because it was nothing more than a Leopard Print car with links to the social media accounts of my Xbox Live buddy.



^^
Dude, I'm sorry but if you put "mother******* foof" on your car, you're really hurting your credibility here. I can see why your paint job failed inspection.
 
It is quite obvious. His valid points are being diluted (reduced in strength) due to his tone of the review. Many sim people can read his attitude in the review and immediately dismiss the good points.
Cheers!
:)

Patroclus, you may be right about him being emotional - heck, most of us are quite emotional in regards to iRacing or our favourite sims, iRacing probably a bit more given the investment we make (money, time and patience).

But what points get "diluted" by emotional charge? And how?

Favouritism? Well, some folks call others idiots, baboons, idiot savants (yep, several times I read that and thrown at members who actually work in motorsports as engineers or technicians) and not a single warning was issued against them. On the other hand, other members who are known for posing questions that for some reason devs seem unwilling to answer, get warnings. Are you aware of how many times a certain individual (notorious for being banned from VirtualR, GTP and iRacing) posted offensive/rude/foul language against other members before he was banned? And why? Because he was a typical, relentless "iRacing is the best so shut the f-word up" kind of guy.

Elitism? It speaks for itself.

Physics problems? Obviously, deniers will deny and mock people with or without videos, with or without telemetry, professional drivers or otherwise.

Costs? It speaks for itself as well.

Driver behaviour? Who would expect that, in a pay-to-race system, bad behaviour, worse, reiterated bad behaviour warrants little more than a slap in the wrist?

So...what exactly are the valid points that get diluted? Where is his review failing to deliver the realistic picture of iRacing?
 
It is quite obvious. His valid points are being diluted (reduced in strength)

LOL

No, not quite obvious, mate. I still want to know which valid points are those that you see, valid points that somehow get diluted by "emotion".

Q: Which valid points?
Your answer: His valid points... :geek:

Hmmm...In moments like this, people ought to be clear, after all it is his review you are criticising (your right, of course, but at least be clear).
 
LOL

No, not quite obvious, mate. I still want to know which valid points are those that you see, valid points that somehow get diluted by "emotion".

Q: Which valid points?
Your answer: His valid points... :geek:

Hmmm...In moments like this, people ought to be clear, after all it is his review you are criticising (your right, of course, but at least be clear).

I was being very clear. I only answered your first question of what do you mean "diluted."
I think you should direct any further questions about the article towards Austin, for I am done talking to you. thank you.

Cheers!
:)
 

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