RDHGP S5 - Round 2 - Knutstorp - 13th May 2010

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Stuart Thomson

The Stoat Without Fear ™
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Welcome back to Round 2 of the RD Historic Grand Prix, Season 5

I think that Round 1 went fairly well, a lot of new faces, good feedback about the car / track choices and most importantly, the racing itself. Switzerland had a generally positive debut into the RDHGP schedule.

It seems that the people who had a less than perfect race were more frustrated by missing out on the racing that was available, rather than by any lack of points return, and that is very encouraging, and augurs well for the rest of the season.

I received no Incident Reports (a good thing, imo), but as we are still working things out and getting re-attuned to League protocols, a few items came up that I’d like to just remind you all about again. Nothing too bad, merely a reminder of the expected behaviour as we move from the very much Happy-Go-Lucky world of the GTL Club, to the only slightly more serious GTL League.

  • Do not sit on track typing your chat in Practice, even if you think you're in a "safe" place. Escape back to the pits and do it if you want to chat. A stationary car can be a nasty surprise for people suddenly encountering it, and a stationary Driver Name Tag is another distraction, all of which can cause issues for people for no real reason.
  • No Chat During Qualifying. That includes when the timer drops to 00:00, as it doesn't roll to Race straight away, and people could still be on a lap.
  • No Chat until all drivers have finished their race, which is not necessarily the same time that you finish your race.
  • After an accident, if your car is particularly damaged / undriveable, stay off the racing line while you assess the damage, and quit as soon as you realise that your car will not be controllable or on the pace to be safe enough to get back to the pits for repairs.
  • No light flashing during the Race. Some people mentioned to me that they thought they saw some. As there were no official reports, this is just a reminder.
For Round 2, we depart the Swiss Alps and move North East to another RDHGP debutante venue – both country and circuit – the AB Motorbanan Ring Knutstorp, in Kågeröd, Sweden.

knutstorp.jpg



Circuit Notes

Ring Knutstorp is a short course circuit situated in Kågeröd, in the extreme south of Sweden. It is approx 40 km from Helsingborg, which itself sits on the Øresund – the strait between Sweden and Denmark. The name will no doubt put some extra expectation on one of our drivers... Torp (I am reliably informed) means “Croft” or small farm.

Knutstorp first opened in 1963, with a shorter layout & length of just 1.1km (0.7 miles), the original track comprising of the “middle third” of the current circuit. It was extended in 1970 to double the length – 2.2km / 1.4 miles – and then altered again in 1979, although less drastically, the reprofiling of a single corner slightly dropping the length to 2.1km / 1.3 miles, and the circuit we will be driving.

Like so many of the Scandinavian circuits, Knutstorp packs a heavyweight punch from a bantamweight size. 13 corners in a short, just over 1 minute lap, where no corner is really like any other, testing bravery, patience and set up. Again, like Neuveville, it has the “must-have” feature for me - well implemented and utilised gradient.

Knutstorp starts with a relatively short straight, with the S/F line near the beginning of it rather than towards the end, so much so that some of the lower placed qualifiers will find themselves lining up around the last bend rather than on the straight itself. Knutstorp sets it’s stall out almost immediately with T1R and T2R, Startkurvan. T1R is a simple and fast corner, but that actually increases the degree of difficulty rather than simplifies it as, once negotiated, the much tighter T2R immediately forces some heavy braking to get round it, but is itself followed by a “straight”, so exit is all important. To get it right, there is a delicate balance of speed through T1R, enough early braking to negotiate T2R (while braking late enough to not get passed yourself), and a good exit onto the straight to maintain momentum.

T3R, & T4L are gentle curves, that gently dip and then climb again, all the while under heavy acceleration. These are great fun to throw the car through, but are almost sucker punches, designed to get you on the edge of control for the extremely tricky T5R, Krönet.

Krönet (I’m no amateur linguist, but I’m guessing something to do with crowns here) is a blind crest, and extremely deceptive. You can see some track rising beyond that blind crest, and it looks almost like a straight, but once you actually clear the crest, you see that the turn goes further right than you thought, and that there’s a medium-quick speed left (T6L) at the bottom before you reach that straight. Most off circuit excursions, and therefore most Stop & Go penalties, will be caused by this little complex.

T7L is a tight, climbing, uphill lefthander, where it is very easy to outbrake yourself and lose whatever momentum you managed to carry through the Krönet & T6L complex. You accelerate up the slope until you reach the crest, when it’s time for some heavy braking into the corner that will test your set-up and patience more than any other.

T8R, Hårnålen, is a tight, constant radius hairpin, which feels like it takes forever to get round. There is no camber on the corner, so any impatient acceleration will likely result in a spin, and a far more costly (in time terms) recovery process. Exiting Hårnålen, there is a short blast on the downhill straight (running parallel to the uphill one that was the Entry) and into T9L, an off-camber 90º left hander that can be attacked quite aggressively.

Another short straight follows, itself followed again by heavy braking into T10R, a 90º right hander. This in turn leads into a short downhill squirt which culminates in T11R, Liton.

Liton was the corner that was re-profiled to shorten the track in 1979, and while it is now slower to negotiate itself than it’s old shape, the re-profiling means that once the initial corner is cleared, the final complex can be attacked much more aggressively.

T12L is a shallow left hander, taken with a dab of brakes or a lift between hard acceleration, which then opens out onto the short stretch of road where the back of the grid may begun their race, out of sight of the Start/Finish line, and the final turn T13R, a fast kink onto the straight and over the line.

And that is the very essence of Knutstorp – a gallon of fun in a pint sized glass.

knut_lod_0K6.jpg


The Race Director has some notes for drivers. Please see the track map above for location of Race Direction note:-


· All Corners Without Exception – The kerbs are not deemed as track, therefore 2 wheels must be within the white lines, on the tarmac, At All Times. Again, there are NO exceptions to this rule at any point on the circuit. Any exception to this rule is deemed illegal, any advantage gained by this method must be ceded immediately. Report people deliberately and excessively cutting.


· T5R – Krönet. As per the description, this curve is a splendid deception of crests, dips and foreshortening perspective. There is likely to be a few offs in this area, so be prepared if you are following someone closely for them to go off, and try to re-enter the track. If they do not do so safely, please file report. Additionally, there is a likelihood of contact through here if emergency measures are taken by drivers. Drivers being forced off track here is not going to win you any friends.


· T8R – Hårnålen. The very flat nature of the hairpin will induce some spins by the impatient. Again, be prepared if you are following closely, as there is a possibility of people spinning and coming to rest bang in the middle of the track. Also again, if you yourself spin, manouever in as safe a way as possible, do NOT try and respin yourself while there is oncoming traffic. If you have to wait until the back of the pack before you can SAFELY move, so be it.


· T10R – No Name 90º. There are close barriers around this corner, which can easily throw a stricken car around and onto the racing line.


· All points on the track – General Items
No lights are to be flashed at any stage, under any circumstances, during the race.
The Track must be re-entered safely so as not to ruin other peoples races.
Car damage must be assessed realistically to know if it is possible to make the pits or not.
This is likely to be one of the longer 100km races of the season with relatively low average speeds, so be prepared, and adjust your driving accordingly.
Incidents, Investigations and Penalties
There are 2 “No-show” infractions now being levied on Drivers after Round 1.

Fernando Rees
Michal Mroczek

There has been an alteration to the Non-Reporting, No-Show infraction procedure, as detailed at length in the Intro & Info Thread, which means that the infraction will only be carried for 1 race instead of 4, and will then be rescinded. Any further No-Shows from the time the infraction is lifted onwards will result in removal from the League.

Please remember, the League staff will only review incidents if they are reported to them.

No report = no review.

Please try and remember the incident reporting guidelines: review, cool off, review again. Only after following the above process, and if you are convinced you still need to report it, should you let the League staff know. Please give as much information as possible during the report (time of incident, drivers involved etc.)

Any accusations or complaints aired in the Chat during or after a race will mean a penalty levied on the person complaining or making the accusations, even if a subsequent official complaint gets found in their favour. I simply will NOT tolerate any post race finger pointing.

Liveries

You have chosen your car and livery already, and you must only drive your chosen car at any time during an RDHGP event. Every driver has a unique livery in this season of RDHGP.

Scoring System

I have extended the points distribution method down to P20 (75% distance completion required) so people can fight for some points no matter where they are on the track, and hopefully have a season long battle with people around them in the League.
The Distribution is as follows for 100km events :

P1 - 25 pts
P2 - 22
P3 - 20
P4 - 18
P5 - 16
P6 - 15
P7 - 14
P8 - 13
P9 - 12
P10 - 11
P11 - 10
P12 - 9
P13 - 8
P14 - 7
P15 - 6
P16 - 5
P17 - 4
P18 - 3
P19 - 2
P20 - 1

1 point for fastest race lap
1 point for qualifying on Pole
 
Qualy without history P5

Race:

Really bad start, Carlos started as a rocket and someone else passed me and I lost 2 positions. Later I fought with Carlos, but made him a little push and he spun, I waited for him and give back position but lost other 2 places. (Sorry Carlos).

Later nice fight with Stuart, but finally passed him and was able to keep my pace. After other mistakes promoted to P3, but on the last laps Grzegorz catched me and I had to defend very strongly, finally kept my P3.

I am very happy that I did not have CL and the result is very satisfied. Very nice race!
 
I give sign with flashing lights but no reaction on S/F-line.



Stuart Thomson - from the briefing above said:
  • No light flashing during the Race. Some people mentioned to me that they thought they saw some. As there were no official reports, this is just a reminder.
...


Any accusations or complaints aired in the Chat during or after a race will mean a penalty levied on the person complaining or making the accusations, even if a subsequent official complaint gets found in their favour. I simply will NOT tolerate any post race finger pointing.

:confused: These are simple rules. I don't care what other leagues do or allow, I've laid out the rules that I use clearly, in the "Intro & Info" thread, and in each race briefing.
 
I'm not too lucky with this track. In season 2 I had to give up the race, because I lost connection. Yesterday I had connection problem too. I had 4 black screen freezings during the race, and when I returned from the "black hole" I found myself out of the track. I manged to get the positions back, but it always followed a black screen blindness dropping me back again, so it was a bit frustrating and after the 4th, I pressed the ESC.

Grats for the podium! Hope the next one will be better!
 
Most make really fair and fast room. only Kris Leeton ,which i have to say block me already in qualifying, drive more then one lap in front of me like i were his opponent. I give sign with flashing lights but no reaction on S/F-line. Not till then he go off track i could pass, so what was the problem :confused:[/SIZE]


Andreas I can only assume, You and I have skins someone could find pretty similar - something blue with orange stripe - and I was chasing Kris in time You reached him, I had You both in my sight range when this occurred. Maybe he thought it was me...
 
Hmmm - just a thought Stu - if headlight flashing (in this context a single flash to let someone know you are coming up to lap them or to say 'thanks' if they let you by) is not allowed, presumably on the basis that it is distracting to the driver ahead - why is chat (in this context simple 'Sorry's and 'Thankyou's) allowed when it is just as distracting and affects everyone?

Surely both should be banned? Myself I found the chat messages a little distracting during the race.
 
Nope, it's staying as it is.

The headlight flashing is banned not just because of the distraction possibility.

People have been known to flash them at people when racing for position to deliberately distract them and try and induce a mistake, and not just the 2 relatively benign examples you mention. That's the sort of behaviour I find reprehensible and I consider it cheating.

Lights also have the additional possibility of dropping performance or frame rates on lower powered rigs as the graphics needs to calculate the lighting on all the surfaces, for all drivers in visible range.
 
I was sometimes little bit distracted by the msg but all my errors were not affected by the quick chats.
But when I got a "thank you" for letting someone through, I did know I made a good maneuver.
So for me it's a good thing with the quick chat.
Personally I don't use the chat during the race because I mostly forget which button is which message.
And it can be misunderstanding when I wanna say "Sorry" but I say "Thank You". :p
 
Personally I prefer using the headlight (and I think in nowadays it doesn't occur performance problems, but maybe I'm wrong). For me the chat is a distraction, and I'm not sure that all the drivers have to know if somebody wants to thank something to another driver. Telling it here in the forum is polite too.
 
I will not be changing the rules to allow use of lights at any stage.

The performance issue is not just down to the drivers pc but also the connections (we've had reports of laggy connections already - that causes more spoiled races than chat), the track (how the lighting is implemented, especially on 3rd party tracks), and the extremely fluid variable of how many drivers are around in the vicinity when a driver flashes the lights (what works fine for one driver when it's just him on his own may be much more impactful if there is a pack of drivers around).

The chat messages simply were not excessive last night. Plus there are also other considerations.

Let's say you have a touch with someone, and they go off into a wall / sand / other hazard.

Assuming that you do the decent thing and wait for them, with chat banned they can't tell you to go as they are damaged, so you just sit there, or drive off after causing an accident.

Also, saying sorry at the time is simply better. There's always a chance that you genuinely forget an incident you caused, and don't remember to apologise for it, you can be sure that the person you disadvantaged will remember it, and with no apology, there's an increased chance of an incident report.

The rules have been in place for 3 seasons now - the only one that's changed (ie been added) is no flashing of lights.

We will stay with the rules that have worked so well up until now. Chat has never been mentioned in the last 3 seasons as being a problem.
 
The Rules are simple, I'm sure they won't change so discussing it further is pointless.

I like that people thank me if they lap me, and I try to do the same if I'm able to. Although this means taking ahand totally off my controller which = no throttle or steering depending on the choice of hand.

This league is about 'Gentlemanly Racing', so don't start squabbling like children over some rules that really don't make that much difference to the racing experiance. Lights stay off and Chat is minimal. We all knew that when we signed up so we should be happy to obey those rules.

Just my Two Cents, but I think Stu makes way too much effort to get this kind of nonsense after a great race.

Edit - ninja'd by the man himself.........my opinion still stands though
 
Tom, noone forces anybody to change the rules. We only expressing our mind and thinking.

You wrote "Gentlemanly Racing" and later compare others to the children, because they have diffrent opinion than you have.

IMO RD HGP is the best league I have ever taken a part, and really appreciate involvment of Race Directors. really good job!, I thanked to Stuart for his explaining and accepted it. That's all - he knows mine, I know his opinion and in friendly atmosphere we are preparing to the next round :)
 
Andreas I can only assume, You and I have skins someone could find pretty similar - something blue with orange stripe - and I was chasing Kris in time You reached him, I had You both in my sight range when this occurred. Maybe he thought it was me...

Maybe, but you drive an Alfa. I think with looking back one time it´s easy to differentiate. And what´s with blue flags, with more then one lap behind him he should get one. So i was thinking flashing lights are the better choise to advert him then risk an overtake with maybe a contact (cause on this track are not really good parts to overtake if the opponent defend hard).
But ok, i will delete my flashing light button (cause it´s strict forbidde how i read) and replace it with a chat "It´s me, not Roman" :rolleyes: Seriously: I don´t know how i evaluate it. First blocking me in qualy and then in race. Not sure, maybe because i agitate in chat after qualy ? -So, I will not do it again. I´m still waiting for a response from him.

but result of this anyway:

Andreas Löffler - Conduct Infraction (Chat Complaint & Flashing Lights). To be carried for 2 events. Subsequent breaches during the Infraction period will carry a "No Qualification" penalty in the following race. Will be rescinded after Round 4.

Really great and no warning for him ? Don´t come with: "Make an incident report !" If you see my errors you should maybe also look from the other point of view why i made it. Ok, my reaction was wrong, but was his doing right ?

And I´m also for not chatting during race, if you get mayby five "thank you´s" per lap it´s possible to deflect someone, specially in a fight for a position.
 
As per all the rules and briefings
Any accusations or complaints aired in the Chat during or after a race will mean a penalty levied on the person complaining or making the accusations, even if a subsequent official complaint gets found in their favour.
I saw the comment, as did everyone else, because chat goes to all drivers, and you yourself admitted flashing your lights, both of which are against the rules, and repeated on each briefing, in the Intro & Info thread, in the Chat thread, and in the previous race's post race thread.

I didn't see the qualifying incident, nor the race incident, hence why - yes - you need to raise an incident report for me to take action.

These 2 rule breaks caused the Infraction. It's not been levied against your driving or result for this race, and it disappears if you don't break either of those two rules again in Rounds 3 & 4 - rules which you should be obeying anyway.
 
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