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Discussion in 'RACE 07 - Official WTCC Game' started by Bram Hengeveld, Sep 7, 2007.
Plus the new helmet view is pretty good when you get the odd fly hitting the visor
Race07 - Official Demo. Hmmmm.... I don't know.
Without giving in, or letting get blown away by the breeze of news - I still can't get amazed by this. I sure respect all hard work - if any - that has been layed down by 'some' to make this 'sim' and I sure am a racing-fan, but I also have objective views of racing-sims and comparing Race07 with the rest out there - I see only comsetic changes and other things making me more or less aggresive about this Demo. ½ of the misery is due to WTCC as a racingclass being pathetically degraded by their engines and some frontwheel drive occasionally, but I guess that's only a matter of opinion so I don't count this now. Racing under same rules still remain damn fun, but I can't stand the feeling Race07 give me - like chasing around with electric wheelchairs on flat tyres, but without the feedback from anything whatsoever. *overkill* OK sorry. :-(
Once again - comparing to other sims, I see too small differences and one huuuge "roadblock" called STEAM (I don't even wanna know how many OS and game-installations will get messed up because of this crisis-coded crap). This alone won't make me favor rFactor or GTR less, I can assure you that.
What DID I LIKE in Race07. Hmmm... I try to focus on what's realistic and different, because only those well appreciated differences will make me buy something I don't already have (ie other sims). In this case... hmmm... honestly, I can't see any huge difference from GTR2, not to say anything about Race the 1st. I doubt that the physicsengine is changed more than from GTR1 to GTR2. Since Simbin got a new CEO - there has only been more aggressive marketing and less constructive development when it comes to realism in their sims.
One thing that MIGHT make me buy Race07 anyway in the end is if it happens to gather alot of fun people racing online. Afterall, that (and realism of course) is what counts. At least for me and I couldn't care less for new improved graphics and cosmetic crap like that. But so far, Race07 in my critical eyes, is as fun as "playing erotic games with a broken camshaft". But I LOOOVE rFactor and GTR. Strange huh? Once again, without giving in, or letting get blown away by the breeze of news... Race07 is less fun than a new skin for rFactor. I wouldn't give 5 bux for Race07.
Now back to GTR2 and rFactor. :whoo:
I'm sorry if I didn't have same opinion as you did.
i got the demo but its best if you download the demo from the simbin site its quicker than gamespot its took me half an hour to download it but if u go to gamespot it was going to take 7 hours
Well after trying out the game I've got to agree with Maxx. Although he can put his finger on most points, I'm struggling to express just why it disappoints me
The game is missing something. There is a lack of feel and it has given me the impression that it has moved more towards an arcade style, especially the F3000. I know it's only a demo but it doesn't give me the buzz to play more of it. I hope that online racing is just as fun as it is with '06 - this is something I've yet to try. Plus I agree with Jay about the steering, there is also a delay for me.
Maybe it's because I've been playing GTR2 for the last couple of nights that RACE '07 feels too neutral..............not sure. They might have "similar" physics engines but GTR2 seems to give you more feedback and more of a simulation experience.
I think I'll compare the '06 to the '07 version over the weekend by playing both one after the other and see why I'm feeling this way.
Either way, as long as RPM will run leagues, I'll buy the game
been testing out the race demo
cannot come on a conclusion....but it looks like there will be a lot of racers online....so that may be a good thing
oh btw...i guess maurice likes it from the back :banplease:
I got the demo via steam, and it does look good, runs well on my system, but the controller configuration is all shot to hell. If you don't have a controller listed, making ones own profile and trying to get it working properly is an exercise in quantum physics.
Having the same problem i had with Race 06 after the cat' patch. hopefully someone will post a corrected, or neutralised profile to use once released, but as is. Completely unplayable, controller wise for me. Crying shame to!
Mmmmmmm i love it, and it runs smoother then race-06 on my stoneage computer, or at least fraps say so.....the sounds .....
About the controller, because it's a demo, the default settings are probably made for keyboards.
And it's not arcade at all. If you now start to slide, you still have grip to recover, instead of being on ice (like rF, GTR2 and RACE 06).
Another improvement, you can't stabilize a spin by just pressing your brake.
The sounds are brilliant and the best and most realistic I've ever heard. (Normally it's pretty much like the real deal, but listening to a replay from this, reminds me Zandvoort, and this was exactly how it sounded).
And about it being more arcadey: what are your fastest times then?
I've noticed when you don't push hard, it's very easy to drive, but when you start to drive on the edge, there is a very tiny room for mistakes.
I think 'the edge is smaller' in this game.
Only problem I've found was that the F3000 behaves very strange on bumps on Anderstorp. If your car is too low, you'll sometimes make a stoppie.
Wow! This is so good, i don't want to eat or sleep. I'll be first in line, when this is released.
Handling is better i think then 06. I like it and will buy it :mod:
I agree there
I expect it'll be released just after Macau in October time.
I hope they run the Leon TDi in the game.
The controller setup is a pain, I 'like' a deadzone, not this sensitivity.... it's not the same.
Had some good races last night, certainly being tapped doesn't fire you into the wall like in 06 (or maybe people are tapping less hard )
The Leon sounds much more real, the F3000 is 'ok' but I'm not a fan of helmet view.
Bit laggy at times, but maybe I didn't choose my servers well & I did run the settings at 'max' for everything. FPS was still fine though.
Hopefully I can just transpose my setups from 06 to 07, to save creating them over again.
I suppose this is a dumb question but why not ask here. Looking at the on-line servers, what does "custom" for car class mean? Does this mean mixed WTCC and F3000 racing together?
A brief summary of first impressions:
Installation was pretty fluid, for me. Lots of people refuse to even look at Steam based games on principle, claiming it's akin to the black death - I've been on it since the 12th of September 2003 and I've had no problems. I come from an audio engineering background, and a growing number of software companies there are forcing USB dongle copy protection on people, even for demos, so us gamers have got it easy. Okay, unfair comparison, but still: it's better than, say, Starforce.
The F3000s are only easy to drive when you're not going fast enough. If you're really on the ball, it becomes something akin to the level of the FO8 (based on a F3000 car) in Live for Speed, which is most definately A Good Thing™, and that's before rain. Driving these in heavy rain is ultra rewarding, especially with other cars; the spray is phenominal. Obviously difficulty != realism, but these were developed with the input of Alx Danielsson who knows what he's talking about, and I'm quite happy to put my trust in that.
Just the right amount of content available in the demo. Brands was expected, but Anderstorp was a nice bonus.
Action cam is a welcome addition in the WTCC cars, especially for video purposes; I have a real peeve with unrealistic camera angles (e.g. swingman spinning around during a corner. It's just plain wrong. Driver's-face view too), and actually it's quite nice to drive with as an alternative to bonnet view. I would've liked to have seen a T-cam view on the 3000s but that would've annoyed purists, the solution they've come up with isn't quite realistic but it's a good compromise. Would have liked to have seen it usable on other cars though.
General physics are more evolutionary than revolutionary, but it's a solid step forward. Graphics too, are improved; the blue haze has gone, the textures are great, there's more circuit detail (marshalls, objects etc)
Force Feedback was great out of the box. One thing to note, though - Simbin have made FF profiles for a couple of wheels, but for ones not in the list it reverts to a crap default, so if you're on a DFP or a MOMO, load the G25 profile and remap everything - your FF will be much improved!
Some free(ish) cam controls. I can't quite figure them out, though. I've only got mouse-look working in TV cam mode working so far, which is probably a bug. Worryingly, some of the controls come up as "Dev Control" in the controls file so these might be taken out for absolutely no reason.
Great to have custom skin support (although not in the demo), and the templates are pretty good quality too.
The editable controls file has had some stuff removed. I always edit the Steer Ratio Speed line to 0 in all ISI engined sims, as it's rather artificial to see your wheels move in the way that they do when you're at max lock. There was no reason whatsoever to remove it.
Encrypted PLR. Speaks for itself. The existing decryption tools don't work, and there are a few lines I'd like to obliterate from the face of the earth. This is the number one question I'd ask a Simbin employee if I ever mysteriously found one tied down.
Still no steering wheel range solution for the >260 degree crowd. Driving the F3000s with 190-odd degrees is just wrong; it should be 540-640 with ~20-27? degrees of lock.
The idea of the mirrors from the VGP demo (two small ones either side of the screen) has been scrapped. I thought they were a great idea; it eliminated the semi-advantage that virtual mirror users got, and kept your eyes mostly focused on the road ahead, rather than the rather abstract point in the sky where you have to look now.
The character limit in the chat when on track is enfuriating.
There's still time, but it looks like none of the 'auxilliary' 07 cars are going to be included although this is appreciable. I'd like to see them added in a free Refuel pack (think Caterhams) after Macau though. Maybe IFM 07 cars too?
Brands is still inaccurate.
I admire the principle behind helmet view but a lot of people are going to be put off by it at first glance both because it's restrictive (that's the point), and becuase it's not exactly realistic. Indeed that was my view, but once you get used to it, you tune it out. I can see the argument for having a way to turn it off, but I can equally see the argument of not doing so - tough call. Great in the rain though.
Minor things that I would've liked to have seen (indicators, that sort of thing) aren't there but it's all stuff low on the priority list really. Not a strong criticism per se but a.. 'musing'.
Both because it's a demo, and because it's a news item, there's a large population of noobs around causing all sorts of havoc. I'm not anti-noob (I introduced several people to RPM in fact), but I am anti-twat and my online experience was in tandem with more of the latter than the former, on the whole. That said, there were a few really great guys about.
Plenty of bugs, in true Simbin fashion. The backbone to the now defunct VGP event is still there, the dedicated server can't host F3000 events, the class filters for the server browser are still WTCC06, WTCC87 and Mini, some people's laps and times aren't being counted, the Esc key fails sometimes, etc etc. Sure, it hasn't gone gold yet but if this is the primary way you're going to attract potential customers then it's very counter-productive to have so many minor bugs. Sure, lots are aesthetic but it's things like that that leave a nasty taste.
I'm buying it anyway to compete with you guys in the leagues, but I had a second "SOLD!" moment in a close F3000 race in the heavy swedish rain at Anderstorp. Following a gaggle of battling cars in that wonderful spray was just.. superb.
A lot of the negatives can be addressed with their in-house developed Lizard engine; the gMotor2 engine is looking more limiting with every release and when they have full control over their own engine some of the .. 'inherent' problems can be eliminated.
Roll on release day!
i like it.
It`s indeed better handling and did they do something to the brakes?
And it needs more RAM memory than the 06 is my opinion.
Just given it a little go.
Feels like a step up from 06. Takes a little while to get the controls and car setup to feel like it doe in 06, which may be why some feel its a little arcadey at first.
I am able to do similar times that I can in 06 , a little way off but I have my settings no where near ( specially the FFB ) to I have in 06.
All cars feel really good, the F3000 is kicking but how you will race online against a load of others remains to be seen. Being so fragile one idiot could ruin the race for so many at the start ( specially 100% damage ) . At least the WTCC cars can take a bit of bumping.
Biggest change I found with the BMW is the more progressive grip when at the point of losing it. I could mange to drift the back end out and regain control where in 06 I just tend to pirouette around and get 10 out of ten for style. Even in the wet I felt I had good spread of grip on default settings.
Overall just feels a little more developed than 06, without being drastically different. Bar the Blue menus ( ughh really girly looking and bright ) its good.
i spent quite some time downloading like many others as i've been following this thru development stage...i'm a single seater fan & had high hopes for this..first impressions......i'm racing offline ...looks great.....the f3000 cars cockpit/helmet view could be tweaked somewhat as the car reacts to the movements of the track but the lid not so much......the car seems very light & twitchy....little bit too much so....
i like to race with different lines but i've made all the changes available & i still seem to be dragged back on to the normal race line....
in practice mode against ai cars there seems to be a radio message every few seconds about caution on bla bla sectors etc....even if you are first out off pits...so ai cars must be spinning off straight from pits...
the ai cars seem bunched up in track when they come out & crash mostly all the time........i've come round a turn in practice to find all the ai cars driving slowly bunched up & had to swerve to avoid them.....several times now so not a one off thing...problem there i think bug wise......since ai was said to be pretty spot on etc...
i've chosen custom settings & normal & still the ai thingy....
hope this is fixed.......also....the rain effect is excellent.....but couldn't there have been a random option for this ? like real life it could start or stop etc..not on/off
agree with post about wet races..player car is slippy as hell & ai seems to be worse off...
brands looks great..lovely 3ds job there.......
i think the game has potential & i'm keeping in mind this is a demo....
it has many things i like......sounds are good but open to improvement..
menus are nice quick to load for me etc.....i hope the full game comes with full skins for f3000 cars as atm 25 or so cars with same skins is distracting......
on this end note i'll be buying it for sure .....off line non steam version...
not that good cant tell anything from that small demo
i didnt expect that i would be so late up as i was tonight
downloaded it via steam, wich for my pc was working great for 3+ years, and it was down in a fly
the game started smoothly, 1280x1024 @ 32bit with no problem for my not so young pc
few adjustments were in place for the key settings and so on...
but i managed to set it up for first...
if we count out all the wreckers we saw yesterdeay nigth it was... a great night to hear the sounds from the engines, wich have improved a lot, in general i was positively suprised in all.
and as i am looking forward to the time spend in the new game when it comes out...
the f3000 aint something for me... so it will take some more practise...
wish you lots of fun
c u on the track
I have downloaded it and I think it is good. But everything on Full and the car textures still look bad/out of focus?
Is this just the demo?
Maybe, Maybe NOT
What is your Rig specification?? Got no comparison now ....
ps: i don't have that problem though!!