Changeable weather

[Reik Major]

thx for testing it - I'm curious.

Maybe for a dedi server it doesn't matter if the file is write protected or not? But it has to be write protected for using it offline, so it's good to have such things solved and everybody can easy test it.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

thx for testing it - I'm curious.

Maybe for a dedi server it doesn't matter if the file is write protected or not? But it has to be write protected for using it offline, so it's good to have such things solved and everybody can easy test it.

It must be write protected for the server as well, but the way have have done it it is the last thing on my list;
I receive the weather file, transferre it to the server with the help of hotmail, then I place the file in the correct folder, and then I write protect it.

 

[Reik Major]

Here's an example of a humidity curve in the autosim weather generator. The cloud symbols on the curve expres the condition very well so it's easy to paint some nice weather.

The interpretations of rain intensity and when to use which compound are my personal experiences and only a suggestion for those, who are new to this stuff.

It's very interesting to look into the weather files from some past rainy events. For example last season at hungary it was raining with humidity (conditions) values up to 88 %. At this stage I still felt ok on intermediates whilest Tim and some others was donig well on wets.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Reik, you are nothing short of a legend! I could not ask for better "to-the-point" answer for all my questions. With Autosim Weather Generator that Jonas provided us with the link for, and Reik's posts explaining how to do it, it seems so easy that I almost regret asking for help to do it, because it can be a lot of fun doing it now, and not very time consuming.

For me now the issue of creating the files are well explained and thus "solved". However, I am a bit uncertain about the various ways of implementing/picking out the file for the day. As I understand it there are at least two alternatives:

a) To create e.g. 100 different weather scenarios that get's copied into one folder per race, and then supplemented with the desired amount (depending on the % chance of rain for that spesific track) of "blank" weather files, and then I will make a random (and blind) pick when I open the server. The only weather forecast we will have in this alternative is the % chance of rain for that venue (a value we all decide for all the races asap).

b) Jonas mentioned something (with url's etc) where it seemed to me that the program itself was able to create a random weather, possibly based on some input values, and then it would deliver a weather forecast to go with it?
EDIT: I read through the site explaining it (http://www.gamers-crib.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7795) and I think I understand it. However, I am left with 2 questions;
1: How much input can the creator use to control the weather? (eg. % chance of rain etc.) iow what parameters do he control?
2: It seems this will make us dependent on an outside guy, because it is no way one can create the weather with this program without gaining more information about the race than the rest/the forecast reviel, is this correct?

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I'll upload a write protected weather file to mydrive now, and we'll see what happens

Not write protected Iow one must always write protect the file after downloading it, a good habbit is making it the last thing you do, when the file is in it's place.

 

[Jonas Lex]

Nice summary Nico, I would have a 3rd option, this program
http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=30037
only of course if noone has had any problems with it?
The good thing about this one is that noone would have to create the weather manually and the variety of things you can edit is pretty good I think.
For those who dont know it, basically it generates 1 out of 4 weather scenarios which are Rain for the whole event, partrain (conditions only change 1 time), Showers (conditions change multiple times) and dry for the whole event. The programm does that with probability information which have to be added one time and then you only have to run the exe everytime you want a new weather file
And then the programm does a forecast which tells you wich one of those 4 scenarios it has chosen for the Race and Q and one temperature info but no further information.

So we could decide in this thread things like e.g. the maximum number of showers for the shower-scenario or how much the temperature is influenced by rain, to name only 2 things and the program would generate the weather.
But again I dont know if the program maybe has any glitches so maybe someone can also tell his opinion who has some experience with it, for sure like at the other weather program some things at the format have to be changed (e.g. change "qualify1" to "qualify") but that shouldnt be very time consuming.

 

[Jonas Lex]

This is what a shower looks like:
(changed the format so that the post is not too long)

Minute=31.00Conditions=61.25AmbientTemp=26.20
Minute=32.00Conditions=61.07AmbientTemp=26.22
Minute=33.00Conditions=60.66AmbientTemp=26.29
Minute=34.00Conditions=63.65AmbientTemp=25.84
Minute=35.00Conditions=67.37AmbientTemp=25.28
Minute=36.00Conditions=71.14AmbientTemp=24.71
Minute=37.00Conditions=74.90AmbientTemp=24.15
Minute=38.00Conditions=77.36AmbientTemp=22.93
Minute=39.00Conditions=78.83AmbientTemp=22.18
Minute=40.00Conditions=80.16AmbientTemp=21.50
Minute=41.00Conditions=81.49AmbientTemp=20.82
Minute=42.00Conditions=82.81AmbientTemp=20.15
Minute=43.00Conditions=84.13AmbientTemp=19.48
Minute=44.00Conditions=85.44AmbientTemp=18.81
Minute=45.00Conditions=86.74AmbientTemp=18.15
Minute=46.00Conditions=88.04AmbientTemp=17.48
Minute=47.00Conditions=88.85AmbientTemp=17.07
Minute=48.00Conditions=88.83AmbientTemp=17.08
Minute=49.00Conditions=88.77AmbientTemp=17.11
Minute=50.00Conditions=88.70AmbientTemp=17.15
Minute=51.00Conditions=88.63AmbientTemp=17.18
Minute=52.00Conditions=88.57AmbientTemp=17.22
Minute=53.00Conditions=88.50AmbientTemp=17.25
Minute=54.00Conditions=88.43AmbientTemp=17.28
Minute=55.00Conditions=88.36AmbientTemp=17.32
Minute=56.00Conditions=88.27AmbientTemp=17.37
Minute=57.00Conditions=86.20AmbientTemp=18.42
Minute=58.00Conditions=78.62AmbientTemp=22.29
Minute=59.00Conditions=70.52AmbientTemp=24.81
Minute=60.00Conditions=62.46AmbientTemp=26.02
Minute=61.00Conditions=56.28AmbientTemp=26.94
Minute=62.00Conditions=55.68AmbientTemp=27.03
Minute=63.00Conditions=55.51AmbientTemp=27.06
Minute=64.00Conditions=55.33AmbientTemp=27.09
Minute=65.00Conditions=55.15AmbientTemp=27.11

 

[Peter Marshall]

Not sure what this and that means, however, some exciting and unpredictable races [and results?] are coming.
I haven't yet looked into any of this, but I will try to do so. It all takes time so it is greatly appreciated to see some give up their precious practice/ fun time to do the work. True champions.

 

[Reik Major]

Great find Jonas!

Only the temps should always stay 20°C, else it could become too tricky.

Finally we just should keep one thing in mind. People who don't have much time to practice should also be able to be competitive. If we have events where in terms of weather everything can happen it could become too much of a lottery. There'd be those drivers who have the time to test different scenarios prior each event and those who don't have it. Gues who has the better cards?

Don't get me wrong guys and maybe I see things too black. I'm very much in favour with changing weather without any forecast. We all are very skilled, so we'll handle it. And in the end of the day we'll see who was the best to immediately handled a new situation best.

 

[Jonas Lex]

yes thats true Reik, drivers should feel some challenge but when things are too unpredictable fun is gone very quickly I think we also should start this weather creating thing slowly to be sure we dont risk the fun, so I could imagine to make a first try for silverstone with an easy weather change, e.g. start with rain and then at one point of the race rain stops or the opposite way (if the time for a rain preperation for silverstone is already too short we can also do that for Nürburgring)

What I could offer to do is to post a couple of weather files created with that programm mentioned in my last post and I will see if the programm can be set up with your feedback so that we generate weather files that are what we want and which are not too unpredictable.

If thats not the case we look for other possibilities, I think Nico already mentioned 2 very good ones and if the result is good then I (or another person) could create 10 or something weather files for Silverstone with one weather change and the Race Director could randomly select one for the race.
Its easier than it really sounds

 

[Jorge Alves]

I will just give you my opinion on this ...

i think if you want to make it fun and not very hard you should allways start sessions around 33% rain and then just go up and down ... sometimes without rain but the track allways wet ... sometimes hard rain just for 1 or 2 minutes ... try to keep the track allways bettween 30-50% wet ... its working very well in my server ... people enjoy the rain and the weather changes ... without having to think if they should change to slick tires

This is just my opinion from my short experience on this ... i will try different weathers during next weeks ... if you want i can post results here ... anyway i think this weather changes are fantastic and make it all much more interesting

thanks for making this thread

 

[Peter Marshall]

thanks for making this thread

and thank you for adding to it. [where's the thumbs up emoticon?]

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

The way I like the weather to be is that
-one cannot for cerain know if it will rain or not (unpredictable)
-most of the 14 practice days it should pay off to practice dry, not wet, iow, the chance of rain should be 30% or less during our preperaion time

In my perfect world we would only know the % chance of rain for a track, e.g. 25% for Silverstone. Then we would have no further forecast. However, if the practice session is dry we know the qual and race will by dry, if the practice is wet then there is a chance (e.g. 50/50) there will be rain in qual and/or race.

The logic here is that if we only prepare ourself for a dry race we minmise the time needed to be prepared for the race. I know we all are skilled enough to handle unexpected wet weather, we have done it before with great success, but here we would have the practice session to brush up on our wet skills.

Personally I do not like the thought of only one change in weather in the race, I do not like to be able to read the future, e.g if it rains at the start and stops after 20 min I would not like to know that it cannot start raining again, because there is only one change. I love the unpredictabillity.

And for those who are thinking, "if I do not prepare myself for a wet race I will crash", it is much easier than you think, as long as you have experienced wet driving at some stage. The secret is to do the race a little smoother and softer than usual, coasting is a good method

Btw, I apprechiate the work put down by Jonas, Reik & Co, if it sometimes sounds like I am negative to stuff you suggest, it is not my intentions, but sometimes I write so fast/to the point that I am in danger of sounding harsh or insensitive

 

[Jonas Lex]

Nico, do you want me to post some weather file examples?

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Thanks Reik!
Its working

Also found out how to make it for Race 2:
. make another weather file for race 2
. copy-paste into the final weather file (after Race1) and rename "Race" to "Race2"

There is "Qualify2" that is not used in Race., It's much easier to use that and rename the Qualify2 as Race2 in Weather.txt.

PS: Uploading will always reset file attributes to normal...

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Nico, do you want me to post some weather file examples?

go for it mate

 

[Jonas Lex]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...79dHZvMERuRFYxVEtVeTc5RlRVcS1mdVE&output=html
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...79dHJsZUhjMGZVMGtfVkFfY0ZTWFVvamc&output=html

These 2 files have been generated with the following guidelines (format will be different for the end result of course):
Scenario: Showers

min Conditions when rain = 50
max Conditons when rain = 92

min Conditions when no rain = 50
max Conditons when no rain = 71

min Number of Showers ! in 180 minutes ! = 1
max Number of Showers ! in 180 minutes ! = 4

Condition a Shower will always reach at least = 73

min Shower Length in minutes = 8
max Shower Length in minutes= 20

(And settings which are probably not so important
min Temperature = 15 (degrees Celsius)
max Temperature = 40 (degrees Celsius)
average Temperature = 25 (degrees Celsius)
(Temperatures around the average temperature have a higher probability)
Influence that Condition has to Temperature from 0 to 100 = 5 (degrees Celsius)
Influene that Condition has to Temperature from 75 to 100 = 3 (degrees Celsius)
beginning condition at a shower = 71

Warmup weather is the exact weather of the race satrt and does not change and Practise and Q weather would be generated the exact same way as Race.

I think thats all what is important to mention.

So my questions are first could a weather file like that be used for the race (with right format of course) and second what would you guys change at the settings above, I think I cannot really add much to the conversation as Ive not yet driven in the wet
Opinions and ideas of any kind are welcome!

 

[Daniel Hansson]

Oh god. I'm sorry I've not been in contact with you Nico about the weather. I forgot to check the forums to see when the season was going to start. I generally link the races to the real F1 races, so I forgot that Presto could have started by now.

But you guys seem to have come a long way with the weather. Looks nice. But if it's too hard to piece together to something that works really good I should be able to step in.

 

[Peter Marshall]

Welcome back Daniel.

 

[Jonas Lex]

Well I guess if we have a guy who has already done that and has done a good job theres no reason to make anything different than before. So Daniel should just continue where he stopped.
Welcome back