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GRID 2: “Codemasters is lying to its fans”
After the release of the announcement trailer of GRID 2 yesterday the community has been in a huge debate about the removal of the cockpit view from Codemasters’ most expensive game to date that will be released for PC, Xbox 360 and PS3 in 2013.
Today John Papadopoulos of DSOGaming reacts in an editorial with bold claims that Codemasters has been lying to its fans in one of the worst attempts at damage control. He refutes the statements of Clive Moody and emphasizes on the limitation of the current consoles compared to the more powerful PC’s, DLC’s and more.
Read the full article here and tell us in the comments below or in the GRID 2 forums what you think. Do you agree or disagree?
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34 Comments
Getting rid of cockpit view is fine by me. It’s one of the most useless things in racing games/sims.
Unless you have a triple monitor setup, you’re pretty limited on screen area…and having most of that area devoted to displaying the inside of your car is just silly. Your focus in a real car is on the road – and in a racing game/sim I prefer to focus on the road & my surroundings as well.
I mean, I guess I could slide my seat waaaaay back and drive with my fingertips so I can take in the glory of the interior of my Ford, but…
The only DLC id want was a cockpit view for the cars i race……:D
One thing is certain, and that is that Codmaster going down! That is it when you are greedy and do not listen to his fans :whistling:
this game will be utterly rubbish just like Dirt Showdown yet naive people will still stupidly buy it
Im surprised people continued to buy Codemasters racing games after the 2nd installment I had of TOCA Touring Cars(2)on the old PSX.
Absolute rubbish at the time & the few other Codemasters racing games I tried since then were no better.
It doesn’t matter how good something looks, when it comes to racing it’s all about feel & this is something they’ve never mastered as far as Im concerned so have never given them my money again & never will for a racing game either….
In fact in a real race car you will be sitting waaaay back than in a normal car, and therefore you will see the same you see now in cockpit view. I race only iRacing because of that.
It looks to me that you never paid enough attention to FOV adjustment
Grid … without COCKPIT VIEW ? … wtf are codies smokin ?
If it stays like this … well I was hyped for Grid 2 but reading this is just … well … no interest at all in the game anymore. :thumbsdown:
Can we have a RD view poll to see what poeple use …
What is your main driving view for racing… (no need to say looking forward
)
i do use all views in testing but race with cockpit view if the game allows it…
Yes we can do that, no problem.
I think we did have one not long ago
Last videogame I saw they removed cockpit view was last Need for Speed Hot Pursuit… and the game was a *bad word* childish commercial result!
That’s why I’m very scary about this GRID2!
Everybody has great expectations for it due to GRID1, but I scare much more that removing the Cockpit view is an hint about the fact next GRID could be just a commercial game.
And for commercial I mean a game which includes only what does sell the most (and the target is casual gamers, not us: hardcore gamers).
Also a DLC already in program is a clue for what I fear!
DLCs shouldn’t be already planned before game releases: is so much a commercial trick!
So instead than hoping for the best looking at GRID1, I fear the worst looking at Codemaster’s PR lyings.
And the first lie is the worst: only 5% wants cockpit?
Maybe… if you include all millions of casual players!
But what if you look at real hard gamers which loved GRID1?
Look it better… it’s over 50%!
My opinion? GRID2 will be a commercial delusion game!
ooppps… :redface:
Sorry for my bad English… (I also wrote lyings instead than lies! *_*)
Grid 2 is a Arcade Racer for the consoles!!
It’s the sort of thing my son (though he enjoys Race Pro) and my Nephew will play and enjoy and fellas having a night in with mates and their beers to have a lark around with. That’s it’s market and it will probably be a commercial success!!
Why us Sim racers even bother to worry ourselves about it when we have the likes of Assetto Corsa on the horizon and the already brilliant GSC2012 and the promissing (though ugly) rF2 already with us I reallly don’t know :rolleyes: .
GRID 2 is going to be an arcade racer, not a sim! In my opinion, cockpit view is better for sims than arcade. Arcade is faster paced than a sim and cockpit makes it difficult to drive in an arcade. To be honest, I was never a fan of cockpit but I have grown to feel okay with it because of iRacing. Hood view allows you to see your surroundings better and still have an immersive experience. Not to mention I get better FPS on my PC with hood view. I don’t think Codemasters made a mistake here, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I just hope they dont milk the game with DLC, because if they do then forget it, not buying it. This isn’t stopping me from buying the game.
I have to disagree with you, one of the important things for a sim in my opinion is a sence of imersion, even with only a single screen (ok a 32")
i still have a better sence of imersion with a cockpit view, infact with a wheel i find it hard to drive with a bumper cam because of it’s location being too low and too far foward and chase cam being just imposssible, that and if i remeber the cockpits on grid 1 were quite good, not forza4/GT5?Iracing but quite good and it seams to make no sence to remove a feature that the previous title was praised on
The part about not being able to run cockpit view is bs. The article already mentioned one cure and i agree. When you using cockpit view and correctly defined viewport, there is very little difference in performance if the scene is properly optimized. In some occasions, it’s even cheaper to do huge part of the screen as almost static image, there’s less bandwidth used for transferring new models and textures between GPU and the rest of the system. Yes, memory size is the first bottleneck but even i can think of places where it can be saved, for ex, you don’t need to load the most complex model on track, your own vehicles outside is almost completely left off. So no, i don’t buy this explanation. The fact can easily be that according some survey they’ve made amongst the casual console crowd, the 5% cockpit use might well be tru and that is the main reason behind such idiocy.. A "realistic" sim without cockpit simply don’t belong in the same sentence.. But it’s codemaster, when have they released anything realistic? And how long do we have to wait for a next gen rally sim?
is rfactor 2 ugly? i haven’t played it yet but from what i’ve seen of the "beta" it looks mindblowing – especially the sunrise video. what game is currently better than it? just curious as just bought a new pc and getting excited
No Andrew I was being a bit harsh. It doesn’t look good on my system which is pretty decent, but with everything on and to the max (and working correctly) then it does look good, but not up to Assetto Corsa or pCars. Though I don’t think pCars will worry rF2 on the physics front:).
Most importantly though the rF2 physics and other features will make it a worthwhile purchase for you.
Sorry if I worried you with my comment:).
Cockpit cam at Grid was great fun. It would be a bad deduction from the game, hope it’s just for consoles. At least will come with a DLC hopefully.
There is no need to be very angry at DLCs. You buy pizza, but have to pay for extra things on it too and nobody complains about it. These dlcs are nearly cheaper than some of these pizzas too.
Excuse me sir but what if they like those games? For instance, i tried Showdown’s demo and it was great fun for me. I become a naive if i buy something i enjoy?
Kennett Ylitalo said an absolutely true thing: when you’re in cockpit view, your car is almost not drawn at all!
So how can it be heavier? It’s enough you use same amount of vertices you saved off by not drawing your car (except some front parts).
External car view and cockpit view load two totally different 3D models for your own car.
So it’s enough you make them stay on the same amount of vertices.
So it’s a total lie if you say stuffs like "by not including cockpits, we saved power to make better looking cars".
My dear Codemaster’s PR: if your target is Casual Gamers, then go lie to Casual Gamers. Your "jokes" can’t work for hard gamers like us!
Also remember a vital thing:
While Casual Gamers makes your earn the most of money, they simply buy a game only if their Hardcore Gamers friends suggest it!
So if you want to make money from Casual Gamers, you have to make Hardcore Gamers happy!
So even if only 5% of Casual Gamers uses Cockpit view, more than 50% of Hardcore Gamers will be unhappy if you remove such view!
hey mate, no worries. you didn’t worry me at all. i was just curious as a few people have said p-cars looks better. for me i’d rather have amazing graphics with amazing physics than "out of this world graphics" and good physics lol
thanks for clearing that up mate. you upgrading your pc to cope? maybe i’ll race you one days soon
rF2 isn’t ugly but not as beautiful as, for instance, pCARS.
Where do you get these numbers from?
A petition for the Cockpit camera.
We need at least to try it!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/grid2cockpit/
I used to love GRID when it first came out, back when I used a gamepad. But since switching to a wheel and pedals set up, I cannot play arcade racers anymore, they just don’t feel right using a wheel. Now I just use the proper sims, iRacing, rFactor etc. I must say though that I am looking forward to the completion of project cars, it looks to be a good mix of sim & arcade, let’s just hope the physics are up to scratch!
Bram Hengeveld, it’s just my opinion… the same it seemed to be just Codemaster’s opinion about 5%.
But just look all comments… it’s statistically unlikely only 5% loved cockpit view.
Well I upgraded my CPU, mobo and ram just after rF2 beta began, but my gfx card needs updating soon. My hd 4870 512mb is not powerful enough.
As for Grid 2 it’s not for me, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my son wants it!!
+1
No, you’re wrong. GRID sold 830,000 copies worldwide [source] and 5% of that would amount to 16,600 players who used cockpit view regularly (mind you the 5% is not about people who love the cockpit view, but rather people who use it on a regular basis).
What you see happening now is that these 16,600 people all team up and plea for Codemasters to implement the feature. The other 788,500 people on the other hand don’t speak out because they don’t mind that the cockpit view is missing. This creates the false illusion that ”way more than 5% of people use cockpit view on a regular basis”. Even if all of the 16,600 people would speak out at once the 5% figure wouldn’t change and Codemasters would still not implement cockpit view. The people in the 5% area (including me) are biased just because we find ourselves in the midst of a sim community who would like to see the feature implemented. Therefore we think that everyone wants this to happen, but it’s not the case. It’s known as hasty generalization.
This is simply not true. ‘Casual’ gamers do not only buy games because their ‘hardcore’ gamer friends recommend it to them. They see the game being advertised and they like it, so they buy it. Also, the 5% is not taken from only ‘casual’ gamers, but it’s 5% of all the people who played the game, so including the ´hardcore gamers´.
I´m not picking at you mate, I just wanted to put things in perspective
FOV adjustment works great when you have enough monitors to support it.
I’ve tinkered with it quite a bit in rFactor, but ultimately it’s tough to find the right balance between proper forward view + adequate side view.
I primarily ran the cockpit view in NR2003 and its predecessors, but in most rF mods I run the "TV Cockpit" view. In the Papy sims the cockpit was functional, and didn’t really seem to get in the way. I could see everything I needed to see in order to race.
That isn’t always the case with rF mods.
Ultimately I use whatever view gives me the best overall experience, and this varies game by game – if something doesn’t have a cockpit view I’m not too worried about it.
I think too many sim-racers attach their massive ego to the matter. If they don’t have a cockpit view, it lessens their ability to brag about how incredible they are at video game racing. :roflmao:
What I’m saying here is that sim-racers take themselves WAAAAY too seriously, especially considering the fact that they are a very small group of gamers compared to "regular" gamers who will happily buy GRID, DIRT, NFS, etc.
Guess which group brings in more money? Guess which group will be catered to because they bring in more money? Well, there you have it.
We should be happy to get what we do. We should be glad there are companies like ISI, iRacing, etc to give us the more realistic sims we enjoy.
Codemasters has NEVER…I mean NEVER…been a hardcore sim company. Their games have ALWAYS been more game than sim, in spite of some of their PR spin from time to time. I’m okay with that. I’m okay with playing something more casual. It’s fun to just jump in and race hard sometimes without having to worry about getting a corner just right. I don’t understand why people get angry at Codemasters for not making sims when it’s something they’ve never truly been invested in doing to begin with.
Complaining about a Codemasters title not being "sim" is like yelling at Nintendo because the drift physics in Mario Kart aren’t right. Your time and energy could be better spent elsewhere.
This. I couldn’t agree more with what you are saying. That sums it up exactly the way it is. GRID 2 is not and will not be a simulator, it’s an arcade (or ”simcade”, if you like..) which is there to have fun with. It doesn’t need to be a sim and it shouldn’t. Besides.. the only reason we play racing games is because we want to have fun and for me a game doesn’t get more fun as soon as it’s called a ”sim”. Just because there isn’t a cockpit view doesn’t mean the game became shit all of a sudden. I’m sure Codemasters’ sales of GRID 2 will turn out great and I know I’m going to have lots of fun playing GRID 2. Cockpit or not, we shall meet eachother in the GRID 2 multiplayer lobbies and have some awesome races.